Why do so many non-Japanese speakers think they can get a coveted job in Japan?

[princessmarisa]

This may come off as a tad passive aggressive, but it is more a genuine desire to understand others.

I see so many threads of people who genuinely think they have a chance of being anything but an ALT/similar without being fluent in Japanese, or having any experience of working and living in Japanese society and how it works.

I think shooting people like this down and asking them to reassess is a dash of much needed tough love, but hey maybe I am just jaded or something?

I don't hear people say this about other countries, even though in many other places, especially across Europe being fluent in English would perhaps be enough, provided you were the top of your game in that field already.

Yet there seems to be this idea, that with sheer will and determination alone, one can fill in a form, pack up their bags and within a couple of years be a really successful manga/anime/videogame artist, living in Japan making lots of money and having the time of their life. Or otherwise just somehow "live" there and "get a good job".

How do people with this dream think it will work, or is it that the learning Japanese to a native level will only take you a couple of years due to your burning passion for the bigger picture?

Or is it that they think they are so talented in their chosen path that it is enough for every single other person in the industry to overlook all the problems caused by not being fluent in Japanese language and work practises?
Most with these ideas seem to be students or otherwise at the start of their true working life, so I don't see how they can be such amazing established artists that they no longer need the other things?

As someone who has struggled on with Japanese for a couple of years and still sounds like a primary school child at best, and a grammer-nightmare at worst, I don't see how the required level of fluency can be possible for anyone without non stop study and immersion in the language, even then I am not convinced.

With all that time spent studying the language, when will you study your art and do all the other steps to have a successful career in any field?


Help me to understand your dreams JF!

[GoNative]

It's not just about skill and language ability. A Japanese company has to put forward a pretty convincing argument to immigration as to why they need a foreigner to fill a position. If there's no particular reason as to why a foreigner is required then immigration is unlikely to grant a work visa. It is quite a lot of work for a company to organise a sponsored work visa.

Anyway no matter what we advise it won't ever stop people dreaming that it's easy to just rock up and get a job because they're so good at drawing cartoons!

[JohnBraden]

I agree with all three of you. I wonder if they've even been to the country as a tourist just to see what they might be getting into. I'm starting to learn the language bit by bit just so I can defend myself a little and be somewhat more learned when I go back there as a tourist again.

I understand people may have hopes, but they have to rooted in some realism or they are in danger of becoming wild dreams. I have no aspirations of ever living there unless I win the lottery and even then, I don't know what day to day living there would be like. But, at least I've set foot in Japanese soil. I even "lived" there for 2 years when I served in the USAF in Aomori-ken. And still I don't know what it really entails.

I've only been here less than 6 months and have seen way too many threads started by people, whose age I really don't know, who think going there to work is the bees knees and that Japan is the promised land. I do think that giving them a harsh reality wake up call is not unnecessary. I applaud those who have made a living there and are willing to tell those who wish to what it really is like.

[princessmarisa]

Originally Posted by GoNative

It's not just about skill and language ability. A Japanese company has to put forward a pretty convincing argument to immigration as to why they need a foreigner to fill a position. If there's no particular reason as to why a foreigner is required then immigration is unlikely to grant a work visa. It is quite a lot of work for a company to organise a sponsored work visa.

Anyway no matter what we advise it won't ever stop people dreaming that it's easy to just rock up and get a job because they're so good at drawing cartoons!

ahh an extra reason I didn't consider but that makes perfect sense!

I wish we could turn to them all and say JFK style

"ask not what Japan can do for you, but ask what you can do for Japan!"

I will be going on holiday for the 3rd time this summer, and any dreams of living there would be if I got super mega rich, have got a lot further than JLPT n5 and if I had spent enough time there to realise I liked it enough to make such a commitment.

[File0]

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

This may come off as a tad passive aggressive, but it is more a genuine desire to understand others.

I see so many threads of people who genuinely think they have a chance of being anything but an ALT/similar without being fluent in Japanese, or having any experience of working and living in Japanese society and how it works.

I think shooting people like this down and asking them to reassess is a dash of much needed tough love, but hey maybe I am just jaded or something?

I don't hear people say this about other countries, even though in many other places, especially across Europe being fluent in English would perhaps be enough, provided you were the top of your game in that field already.

Yet there seems to be this idea, that with sheer will and determination alone, one can fill in a form, pack up their bags and within a couple of years be a really successful manga/anime/videogame artist, living in Japan making lots of money and having the time of their life. Or otherwise just somehow "live" there and "get a good job".

How do people with this dream think it will work, or is it that the learning Japanese to a native level will only take you a couple of years due to your burning passion for the bigger picture?

Or is it that they think they are so talented in their chosen path that it is enough for every single other person in the industry to overlook all the problems caused by not being fluent in Japanese language and work practises?
Most with these ideas seem to be students or otherwise at the start of their true working life, so I don't see how they can be such amazing established artists that they no longer need the other things?

As someone who has struggled on with Japanese for a couple of years and still sounds like a primary school child at best, and a grammer-nightmare at worst, I don't see how the required level of fluency can be possible for anyone without non stop study and immersion in the language, even then I am not convinced.

With all that time spent studying the language, when will you study your art and do all the other steps to have a successful career in any field?


Help me to understand your dreams JF!

Before anything else I reply because I think the question was genuine and you really are curious why/what do you don't understand or do you misunderstand and I think I have a different answer.

A few of my friends went to work to England a few years ago, they had no knowledge of the language at all, and actually managed to find a job in a pub next to some kind of gypsy area...no comment on that... but believe me they weren't the first nor the last who want to work/live abroad without knowing ANY foreign languages. That does not specifically Japan related thinking - I'd risk to say it is (was) more typically US related thinking (correct me if I'm wrong, but there are still so many citizens who don't speak the language, and refugees, immigrants are still mean a hell of a problem. So no I really don't see this would be specific to Japan...) But if you say it's different in the case of Japan, than you can be right, I have not much knowledge about that...
I don't know many countries who's companies hire immigrants more willingly than their own people. Is it harder in Japan? I don't think so, for example in Canada there is a law which limits the possibilities of hiring foreign workers, if there is someone even less skilled for the job with valid citizenship the company must hire him/her. Is there a law(s) for that in Japan? And still there are many who want to live/work in Canada...

The language could be a wake up call for these dreamers, but as I see they are from all over the world. Again, I can be wrong with this, but maybe it's not that hard for them to learn the language than for a native English speaker. For me (from my native language) it was crucial to learn English even to this level, even-though they say English is simple and so catchy, *ugh* believe me, it wasn't, and I don't know of any from my country who'd say otherwise.

I think these people (no matter the age) keep coming to JF because there are niece and helpful people around here with lots of experience and they can have their answer without being bullied , although I don't really know of other forums and I couldn't possible read all posts about it ,but so far I had this impression.

There are types who will give up their safety just to experience something new, and there are some who surely have great talent and will be successful no matter how. It's a good thing they are willing to go after their dreams, don't you think.
And they probably want to go to Japan with their drawings because there is a huge market covering that, we could say it's a 'dreamland' of manga-artists, it's really rare in many other places (for example I could recite all the animation studios even with the lead-artists names from my country in a short time, it'd be around 15-30 different names...). And one more thing if you are a really talented artist the age doesn't really matter (just look up Picasso's early works), but you're right one have to learn a lot to get better in anything.
Or they just want to go there because they love the country, and you will meet them here because it's a Japan Forum.

[dogsbody70]

Here in UK illegal immigrants who work are chased by the border force agency. those who employ them are likely to have to pay £10'000 for each illegal employee.

I think this is because there were so many traffikers who brought immigrants into the country then they were sent to work on farms or in factories doing work that the locals did not want to do. They were taken advantage of and often lived in dreadful circumstances.

There has been a lot of complaints when legal immigrants from EUROPE come and work-- taking away opportunities for locals.

I suspect there are still many illegal immigrants here.


Most of the immigrants would not have any English language skills. Plus there are those who produce false documents and visas for false language schools here. our govt. is coming down heavily on this.

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by File0

But if you say it's different in the case of Japan, than you can be right, I have not much knowledge about that...
I don't know many countries who's companies hire immigrants more willingly than their own people. Is it harder in Japan? I don't think so, for example in Canada there is a law which limits the possibilities of hiring foreign workers, if there is someone even less skilled for the job with valid citizenship the company must hire him/her. Is there a law(s) for that in Japan? And still there are many who want to live/work in Canada...

One of the differences is that Japan doesn't really have an immigration policy. There have been some exceptions in relation to Koreans and repatriating Japanese decendents who some generations ago moved to South America. Other than that Japan doesn't have a structured immigration intake each year like many countries do. They also accept very few refugees.

Other than getting married to a Japanese citizen it's pretty hard (and takes a very long time) to get permanent residency here. After 5 years of living here you can apply for citizenship but this will normally mean giving up citizenship of your home country, Japan doesn't allow dual citizenship.
Unlike many of the countries we come from Japan is definitely not plunging headlong into multiculturalism.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by GoNative

Unlike many of the countries we come from Japan is definitely not plunging headlong into multiculturalism.

"sighs"

Your inability to think things in relative terms keeps producing farcical and contradictory comments. You refuse to learn the Japanese language after 7 years of living in Japan and you clearly despise the customs and social institution thereof. What works here works here; You simply won't admit it.

In short, I don't see you plunging headlong into multiculturalism in yourself, either. Why force upon us what you yourself don't even choose to practice?

Had you really been the modern, multicultural person that you claim to be, your Japanese would now be at least as good as my English.

[SHAD0W]

Originally Posted by dogsbody70

Here in UK illegal immigrants who work are chased by the border force agency. those who employ them are likely to have to pay £10'000 for each illegal employee.

I think this is because there were so many traffikers who brought immigrants into the country then they were sent to work on farms or in factories doing work that the locals did not want to do. They were taken advantage of and often lived in dreadful circumstances.

There has been a lot of complaints when legal immigrants from EUROPE come and work-- taking away opportunities for locals.

I suspect there are still many illegal immigrants here.


Most of the immigrants would not have any English language skills. Plus there are those who produce false documents and visas for false language schools here. our govt. is coming down heavily on this.

Nobody really chases them. We let anybody in. Don't speak our language? No problem, set up a take away!

[dogsbody70]

well I have been watching the Border force agency on TV.


They do search for the illegals--------- the employer can have to pay £10'000 for each illegal working for them.


ALso what they call the CLANDESTINES who come via Calais Dover. But its true they get away with a lot.

My japanese friend is here on a long term students visa-- and she works really hard-- will take no time off and does her home work conscientiously.

There are too many false documents flying around. what gets me is that the GOVT. is actually reducing the number of Border force Agents.

Its too easy to enter this country though as we are an Island.


I feel sorry for the immigrants who are fleeced and pay a fortune to get to Britain-- then herded together working for those People who are happy to allow them to work in very poor conditions. Are they still getting away with that?


There are many things that are wrong.


Why do so many think that this country will look after them?

when there is scarcely enough room for our own people.


Its hard enough to get work here for us-- and with this new coalition?