What is your opinion on immigrants?

[Ryzorian]

It's about assimulation. That's the crux of it. When a group of Immigrants come in, they must assimulate to the local population in order for things to go smoothly. When they don't, things get ugly.

In otherwords, if a bunch of folks moved to Japan, it would be expected that they would "become Japanese" in how they view the world. That's assimulation. Many of the problems in the US and Europe today is because they have let immigration run unchecked and hampered proper assimulation with "multicutural BS". Your American or your not, there is no Fillintheblank- American.

Large numbers of immigrants who don't conform or assimulate into a local population base is called an "invasion", or "colonization". It's exactly what happened to the American Indians. They were over run by sheer numbers of Immigrants who exspected the natives to conform to the immigrants way of thinking, not the other way around.

Bascially, in order to have a "happy" Intigration policy you only allow small numbers in at a time and they have to "go native". If they don't you send them back where they came from.

[josebrown]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

It's about assimulation. That's the crux of it. When a group of Immigrants come in, they must assimulate to the local population in order for things to go smoothly. When they don't, things get ugly.

In otherwords, if a bunch of folks moved to Japan, it would be expected that they would "become Japanese" in how they view the world. That's assimulation. Many of the problems in the US and Europe today is because they have let immigration run unchecked and hampered proper assimulation with "multicutural BS". Your American or your not, there is no Fillintheblank- American.

Large numbers of immigrants who don't conform or assimulate into a local population base is called an "invasion", or "colonization". It's exactly what happened to the American Indians. They were over run by sheer numbers of Immigrants who exspected the natives to conform to the immigrants way of thinking, not the other way around.

Bascially, in order to have a "happy" Intigration policy you only allow small numbers in at a time and they have to "go native". If they don't you send them back where they came from.

its a 2 way street.
japanese born koreans /chinese arent allowed to assimilate even though they know nothing about their culture/are 3rd 4th generation. they are still "gaijin".

[RealJames]

if this discussion gets carried much further it may be important to make a distinction between asian immigrants and western immigrants, as they are treated quite differently

with respect to the not-allowed-to-assimilate thing, anyone born here has the right to a Japanese passport if they stay here for a while, and no Japanese person can tell a Japan-born Korean apart from other Japanese people

[Ghap]

Originally Posted by Sitron

I am an immigrant, and most immigrants in Norway are like me, either from the Middle-East, or Muslim countries outside the Middle-East. In my city Oslo, immigrants are 20% of the population but 100% of all violent encounters I have had. The only persons to ever physically attack me or try to rob me have been immigrants from muslim countries.

Immigrants here are overrepresented on every bad statistic from rapes, to murder rates, to crime rates, to unemployment, to you name it. I feel it's the same in other European countries.

Even though I am an immigrant, my encounters throughout life with other immigrants have made my highly suspicious and critical of immigrants. I have grown to dislike different ethnic groups, yes even Arabs especially from North-Africa. And I can understand why the Japanese don't want immigrants in their country.

Are immigrants in your country just as bad as here in Norway? And do you dislike immigrants in general?

Tell me as an immigrant with "concerns" you mentioned these on your own application form?

no doubt you also told your own immigration officer.

Honestley certain words from your post jump out at me and i feel sorry

[Ghap]

Hmm ive already come across a diffrent post by this guy that was locked

[Sangetsu]

Assimilation has always been the main issue. In Europe, the leaders of France, Germany, and England have all publicly stated that "multiculturalism has failed". They state that they have taken pains to allow immigrants to practice their own cultures, to the detriment of European national cultures.

Immigrants often flee their homelands to escape poverty, corruption, and violence. Unfortunately, these problems are generally the result of their local culture, and though they may escape their home countries, they often don't shed the poor attributes of their native cultures. Rather than adopting the culture of their new country, they practice their native culture, often with it's negative points.

Some will argue that all cultures are equal, and that people should follow the cultural traditions of their ancestors, but this is simply untrue. If all cultures were equally virtuous, then all the world's cultures would enjoy a more or less equal quality of life. It is obvious that some cultures are better than others, and those cultures which have a high quality of life should be maintained as much as possible.

This is evidenced by America, which is by far the most multicultural country in the world. Immigrants who adopt American culture and adhere to it's values are generally successful and well-to-do. Those who prefer to live and practice their native cultures in deeply ethnic neighborhoods tend to be impoverished, and to commit more crimes. There are exceptions of course, but they merely prove the rule.

Partially, it is a matter of race. Not because people of different races can't assimilate, but because people of particular races tend to feel more comfortable with others of their own race. This discourages assimilation, and propagates adherence to their native cultures.

I grew up in the southwest US, where state governments thought it best to embrace multiculturalism, and even to allow bilingual education. In my home state, which is part of the USA, it was possible to graduate from high school without even being able to speak English. This practice made assimilation nearly impossible, and condemned many high school grads to a life of menial jobs and pay, unable to ever enjoy the full benefits of life in America.

In America there is lots of talk of immigration reform, and of giving a "path to citizenship" for the 18-odd million illegal immigrants who live in America. I would support this action on two conditions: 1, all those who wish to stay must be proficient in English, and 2, all those who wish to stay must take and pass a high school equivalency exam. Knowing the language and having a decent level of education are the two largest steps to assimilating. If they wish to become "Americans" and not hyphenated Americans, than I am all for immigration.

[Suki]

Originally Posted by JohnBraden

I heard that the Russian mafia and the South American drug traffic have established deep roots there since I've been gone....

Russian mafia...? No shit! hahahahahahahahahhaa xDDD Where'd you get that from?! As for drugs... yeah I hard Spain is the first in Europe with the most cocaine use, but that's not to do with immigrants, and the most used drug around here is hash and pot, and that comes from Morocco mainly.

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

I would support this action on two conditions: 1, all those who wish to stay must be proficient in English, and 2, all those who wish to stay must take and pass a high school equivalency exam. Knowing the language and having a decent level of education are the two largest steps to assimilating. If they wish to become "Americans" and not hyphenated Americans, than I am all for immigration.

That's funny cause if such conditions had been imposed in the times of the European conquest, today English would not be the most spoken language in North America. English-speaking people were a minority once too, just keep that in mind.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

In America there is lots of talk of immigration reform, and of giving a "path to citizenship" for the 18-odd million illegal immigrants who live in America. I would support this action on two conditions: 1, all those who wish to stay must be proficient in English, and 2, all those who wish to stay must take and pass a high school equivalency exam. Knowing the language and having a decent level of education are the two largest steps to assimilating. If they wish to become "Americans" and not hyphenated Americans, than I am all for immigration.

LMAO

And how is your Japanese? Is it anywhere near the level of a Japanese high school graduate? If no, what in the world are you even talking about?

知識人ぶってんじゃねーよ。論理的なこと絶対言わねー んだよな、あんたは。

[Ryzorian]

Actually, The US is english speaking because England beat Spain and France. Europe in general was heavy into colonization for hundreds of years. They didn't send boatloads of people over just to have them make teepee's with the local Indian tribes, they expected them to turn the whole Continant into proper english speaking subjects of the crown.

Assimulation and colonization are different aspects of immigration. In one, you have large numbers of people who move from one land mass/area to another with the full intention of creating a secondary version of thier orginal homeland. It's why New England is called "New England".

The other form, has a few people who come into a new country and adapt to the new culture through assimulation. They leave thier old culture behind and embrace the new. While it's true "immigrants" in both situations are trying to create a better life for themselves and thier families. The two have radically different outcomes.

Take the US as an example, It's far more like Europe culturally, than it is like native Americans. Now yes, it's been modified from Europe and has developed a sence of it's own self but even that is still mostly just a blending of different European ideals into one bag. "The melting pot" as it were. The true natives were shunted off into the corner because the new comers weren't willing to assimulate to thier way of life.

That's the issue I and Sangetsu are explaining here when we mean "assimulation". I am not against immigrants were ever they come from, provided they want to become Americans and not try to establish a " New- place country of orgin here" land.

I say this because histroy has shown us repeatedly that when large numbers of immigrants move to an area and refuse to assimulate to the local culture, war's erupt and eventually the natives are either driven onto "reservations" or the invaders are driven back where they came from.

[RobinMask]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

That's the issue I and Sangetsu are explaining here when we mean "assimulation". I am not against immigrants were ever they come from, provided they want to become Americans and not try to establish a " New- place country of orgin here" land.

I say this because histroy has shown us repeatedly that when large numbers of immigrants move to an area and refuse to assimulate to the local culture, war's erupt and eventually the natives are either driven onto "reservations" or the invaders are driven back where they came from.

I don't quite agree with this. England has quite a diverse, multi-cultural culture at the moment - particularly in major cities - and I haven't seen any 'wars' or arguments or people 'driving' these immigrants back to their home countries or 'reservations'. I think most countries have a "Chinatown" and the likes, and I would ask how often protests or argumens break out. Here we have a large Indian commuinity, many of these people - some I know personally - still have the same religion, food, attire, languages, they haven't "assimilated" and yet they can still mix freely with 'natives' and there hasn't really been any issue whatsoever.

Do immigrants really need to give up their own cultural identity just to fit into another culture? I think both groups and individuals can be true to themselves and still fit into a new culture and achieve a healthy life, free from conflict. The majority of conflict I've seen comes from the 'natives'. The protests, the riots, the arguments - these are incredibly rare, but when they do occur its 99% of the time natives that are causing the conflict.

Originally Posted by Sitron

Are immigrants in your country just as bad as here in Norway? And do you dislike immigrants in general?

I won't respond to the majority of the original post by Sitron, as personally I found it offensive. I will say however that immigrants here are treated variedly according to what nationality they are, how well they fit into our culture, and where they are trying to live/work. Some nationalities have essentially become a part of our culture, they have been here for generations, so that their children were born here and know no different, whereas others who have come here - mainly since the EU which allows free travel/immigration - get labelled badly because they are seen as taking advantage of our state and welfare.

Personally I'd say the issue of immigrants is complex. I'm not willing to speak for my entire country, nor am I going to lump all immigrants together and say 'this is how I feel' as no two people are the same. I will say that my best friend is an immigrant, she now has citizenship and speaks English fluently, and I admire her greatly. She's almost a role model to me. Her entire family have welcomed me and treated me with respect, and she's managed to hold onto her own culture and identity whilst adopting new traits from her new culture, and she's harder working and kinder than half the native English people that I know. So no, I don't generally dislike immigrants, because I refuse to tar a group of people with a bad image that's based solely on a rare few. There will always be good and bad, but a rash judgement and prejudices help no one.