Patriotism

[BobbyCooper]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Bobby - this is a warning.

I do not really know or care if you are serious or a troll. That is not the point. Incessantly worshipping Japan is one thing, which while a bit annoying at times is not against the rules.

However, blatant bashing of any country, group of people, or individuals will NOT be tolerated. You have been banned twice already. Do not push the rules or you will find yourself with a much longer ban next time...

(Posted publicly as I have gotten a few pms about this, and want it made clear that I am not giving Bobby free reign to do whatever he wants. Do NOT turn this thread into a bash Bobby fest as has happened in the past.)

I attack no one! I just state my opinion to the topic which is presented.

[RobinMask]

Originally Posted by dxr

I've lived in and have visited England many times. The English as a *state* seemed VERY patriotic; especially when it came to other people from the UK (i.e. vs the Irish). Other than that, I haven't really witnessed it much there either (but again, I was mostly in London, so who knows how the rest of the country feels/acts). Also, I have never seen so many flags displayed in my life during the world cup. Yes, a sporting event, but I am talking houses and cars COVERED in flags and such. It was actually pretty cool

I don't think the UK is patriotic at all actually. I can see why you'd think London is, but London is the main hub for tourism that I'd say the majority of foriegn tourists go to and visit . . . because of all those foriegn tourists everything is geared to be 'British'. I mean I actually felt rather 'un-British' being there, because it was just so different from the rest of the country, lol. I think it's like say New York or Tokyo, in the main cities you'll seem to find much more 'patriotism' in forms of flags, parades, national cusine etc., than you would elsewhere.

In the UK no one really seems to celebrate our Saint's day, or bother about the royal weddings, or ever wave a flag except maybe for sports events . . . I don't know, compared to what I've seen in Europe and on the media in other countries, it really is one of the least patriotic countries. Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland, however, they seem quite patriotic . . .

I know it sounds rather odd, but in my experience patriotism seems to be regarded with suspicion (or at least locally). Kind of like 'well, why are you so patriotic?' . . . if you're English then you're English, why announce it to the world unless you're hiding something? :P

[DragonNL]

Originally Posted by Umihito

When I was in Japan, I can't really say I saw much in terms of flags flying and such (the majority of flags I did see flying were those of other countries), yet sometimes I hear that Japanese people think very highly of their country, and are extremely proud to be Japanese.

When I was there I was actually searching for a Japanese flag to take home. (I do that with every country I love and visited) But it was almost impossible to find a shop that sold those real flags! I asked it to a Japanese tour guide where I might find one. But she said it would be very difficult and she didn't know any places that sold them. She said something like; "The Japanese people don't really use flags anymore."
So I think even though they love their country and culture the Japanese aren't patriotic. If you're patriotic you want to be able to use the flag of your country right?

About me;
I'm not patriotic at all. I don't even love my country. I'm rather indifferent about The Netherlands. Also from what I know our culture seems to be dying and I don't really care about it. The Japanese culture is way more interesting.

[evanny]

i am sometimes annoyed how my country's old folk tend to celebrate how we survived wwI german occupation and wwII where germans and russians occupied us. i am against bringing up bad blood between countries (even thou almost 1/2 population died/fled). other than that over people are quite aware of our faults and if they brag about something then it usually has some merit to it.
for example. when we brag to tourists about things like our green land (no.1 in europe if not mistaken) or 13th century buildings, then it is fine by me. we don't wave our flags for no reason, nor we sing anthem for no reason.


i find myself actually frustrated with american patriotism sometimes, seeing how half of people don't know what they are talking about - specially when it comes to america being no.1 or the freedom they have. let's just say americans have the largest population of people who are blind to governments doings and love to yell to people who critique it "well, then you don't love america!"

[BobbyCooper]

Originally Posted by evanny

i find myself actually frustrated with american patriotism sometimes, seeing how half of people don't know what they are talking about - specially when it comes to america being no.1 or the freedom they have. let's just say americans have the largest population of people who are blind to governments doings and love to yell to people who critique it "well, then you don't love america!"

Exactly what I am talking about!

Most Americans really, truly believe that their famous slogan.. "The Land of Opportunity and Freedom" is still alive today.. infact, in History it could have never been applied to their land.

Most Nations who suffered horrible defeats in post History, are way superior than other Nations because they HAVE suffered this in the past. America never had the chance to learn from there terrible mistakes, mistakes they still do Today!!

[Nyororin]

To redirect this in some weak hope of keeping it from jumping into bash territory...

I find it interesting how the US tends to present freedom as a uniquely US concept. Well, maybe not the US in any official capacity, but in the popular media.
I have found that the freedoms of the US aren't unique, and that the US is not the only country to grant their citizens the rights that they have.

Is the emphasis on freedom a carry over from an earlier era when freedom was not something common? Or is it some sort of misinterpretation?

I have been stunned on occasion by people telling me they would never live in Japan because it was not a "free" country.

[evanny]

that is the points that most of them don't know how limited their freedom is. they think if you can carry a gun and speak whatever you want to then that is ultimate freedom.
for example - did you know that Bush had rights (which Obama hasn't discarded and also has used) to imprison/assassinate without a trial any usa citizen under suspicion of terrorism?

[JohnBraden]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

To redirect this in some weak hope of keeping it from jumping into bash territory...

I find it interesting how the US tends to present freedom as a uniquely US concept. Well, maybe not the US in any official capacity, but in the popular media.
I have found that the freedoms of the US aren't unique, and that the US is not the only country to grant their citizens the rights that they have.

Is the emphasis on freedom a carry over from an earlier era when freedom was not something common? Or is it some sort of misinterpretation?

I have been stunned on occasion by people telling me they would never live in Japan because it was not a "free" country.

I believe some of this is due to the general self-centeredness of most Americans and the lack of real education about other countries. America is number one and that's all they care about. I don't know how much geography is taught nowadays, but most people I know can't place most countries on a globe. The news doesn't show much international news unless Americans are involved in it somehow.

To me, it's a bit too self-centered and may explain a little why people may see Americans with some resentment. This is only from the observations I've had since I've been here. I was born in Spain and lived there for 22 years and then 2 years in Japan. I've been here since 1990 and it's not my favorite place, but it's home....

[BobbyCooper]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

To redirect this in some weak hope of keeping it from jumping into bash territory...

I find it interesting how the US tends to present freedom as a uniquely US concept. Well, maybe not the US in any official capacity, but in the popular media.
I have found that the freedoms of the US aren't unique, and that the US is not the only country to grant their citizens the rights that they have.

Is the emphasis on freedom a carry over from an earlier era when freedom was not something common? Or is it some sort of misinterpretation?

I have been stunned on occasion by people telling me they would never live in Japan because it was not a "free" country.

Well, Japan did introduce the Second Bill of Rights unlike the country where this law was orginally from.

just to know, did Americans tell you this in your last sentence?

[DragonNL]

Originally Posted by evanny

i find myself actually frustrated with american patriotism sometimes, seeing how half of people don't know what they are talking about - specially when it comes to america being no.1 or the freedom they have. let's just say americans have the largest population of people who are blind to governments doings and love to yell to people who critique it "well, then you don't love america!"

I feel the same way. I don't hold any grudges against the American people, but the majority is indeed a bit blind. And that frustrates me... The following pieces say enough;

Recent polls show a global approval rating for WikiLeaks of over 80%. Except in the US. There it's about half. Certainly the corrupt government of Barry 'Okey Dokey' Obama got a lot of flak because of leaks but what about the governments and the peoples of the northern African states on the Med? They were glad to find out how corrupt their governments were. They're amongst the most supportive.

Harry Truman gave one single press release after the US murdered 200,000 people in Hiroshima. It's a military base, he said. And they were done with it. Obama's however been skiing slalom through all his bungling lies about Abbottabad and he can't seem to get his story straight.
[..]
This same 'Okey Dokey' president flew to Oslo Norway to accept the tribute of the Nobel Peace Prize even as he escalated another in a long line of wars of aggression and shoved off an additional 30,000 grunts to killing fields.

Does that leave an impression on the people in the US? Hardly.