Why do many japanese want to have white skin?

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

where I am, as far as I can tell, the only person of color attempting to defend my opinions.

What does your skin color have anything to do with this? Are you trying to suggest white people never have problems with racism? You know, the direction of my entire life now is being controlled based on the fact I am white, an outsider, right now. How do you think I feel? No one will give me a fair shot here in Thailand at what I want to do simply because of my skin color and ethnic group. Perhaps you should shut your mouth a little.

And why do you say "of color", as if it is white people Vs. the rest of the world?

You're starting to sound more racist than any of us "whites" here are... perhaps you should try and forget what color we all are for a minute, and just focus on the principles behind situations from an unbiased perspective.

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by girigiri

Does a large proportion of the Japanese population consider fair skin to be more attractive than dark? Sure - what of it? If you can't tell the difference between aesthetics and racism, that's a problem you are inflicting on others.

Nice to see you're following the thread carefully!

It is not simply aesthetics. Re-read.

[girigiri]

I have read it, Tenchu, and with care.

The question raised by the first post refers to the reason why Japanese people consider it desirable to keep their OWN skins from becoming tanned.
In answer to that question, it IS about aesthetics for the Japanese people I have met - both from the point of visual impact and from the issue of being careless with one's body in over-exposing it to the sun - carelessness of one's own person is deemed unseemly.)

Other posts, irrelevant to that question, in this thread were also referred to ... to wit
I have too often seen people behave in an offensive fashion toward others, and scream "racist, sexist, homophobe et al" when their victims rise to the bait, to be influenced by random accusations of racism. (or sexism, or homophobia, or ....)

and the relevance of the balance of my post to those other issues was confirmed by your own post, immediately following mine:
quote: What does your skin color have anything to do with this? Are you trying to suggest white people never have problems with racism?

[Tenchu]

Yes, you can say the desire to keep skin white is a personal thing, and it is, and there is nothing wrong with that.

If you had read the whole thread, however, you would have read where I said darker skinned people have more trouble getting upper class jobs with frequent social contact, such as on an airline or in an expensive beauty shop, because darker skin is undesirable.

What this means is that this trend is leading to social exclusion of certain people; often where people are born with darker skin, and it isn't their fault they are so "ugly".

Also, in Aisa, dark skin is often thought to represent social class, and those with the darker skin are thought to be lower class and poor and dirty people. There is something wrong with this, also.

[girigiri]

Tenchu: As to that, I will agree that there a sections (and some influential sections) of Japanese society which are racist - the position of the Ainu people being a major issue. Had this thread been initiated along the lines of "Racism in Japan", I would have addressed those matters.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Also, in Aisa, dark skin is often thought to represent social class, and those with the darker skin are thought to be lower class and poor and dirty people. There is something wrong with this, also.

Please don't say "Asia" like the continent is of one mind. There are Japanese sun-worshipers that are rich and privileged and try to get as dark as possible.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

He's a she, but I understand Barone1551's point, which is:

Let's say "Here is my list of turn-ons"

short....fine
glasses....fine
sporty fashion.....fine
fair skin......ALARM! ALARM! RACISM!"

I would say I don't think that is fair. Why are some qualities I find attractive safe, and others racism?

I think the response would be "that's internalized racism...there is a REASON you prefer fair skin, and that is because the media has taught you that dark skin is bad".

I don't like this argument for two reasons. 1) It assumes that the human brain is stupid and is not savvy enough to filter and organize the information it is given and 2) it doesn't allow preference without being racist.

This goes back to the argument about Japanese women and skin tone. Japanese women have tried to keep their skin fair before the existence of black people was even known to Japanese, and yet, if a woman today in Japan uses a parasol in the sun there is the argument that because of "internalized racism" she is unconsciously trying to avoid turning into a black person. I think that argument is insane, frankly. Again, it allows for no free will and it ignores the powerful influences of fashion and tradition.

Considering we all share pretty much the same media, why would there be women that DO try and get tan, and why are there men that are attracted to them? Again, here is where "internalized racism" falls a bit flat.

No it doesn't.. she said she is not attracted to black people

There's a clear difference between that and "I prefer fair/dark whatever skin"

Race is more than just skin colour

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Barone1551

Mercedesjin- Why is it racist if someone is not attracted to black people? I don's really see that as racist at all. I personally am not much of a fan of blonde haired women. I'm just not as attracted to blonde hair as I am of other hair colors. Now I'm sure you of all people could find me racists somewhere in this comment becuase you are very good at pulling out the most ridiculous reasons why people are "racist". But with my comment about blondes that doesnt make me like blonde girls any less just becuase im not as attracted to them. So my basic point is since when did not being attracted to a certain look make you racist.

And i know this is a very simplistic post, especially after what you guys have been talking about. I just found all these new posts so sorry if this is a step backwards.

It's racist because of what you said just there.

Unless your use of the term "black people" is unconventional.

Also there is a difference between not being attracted to something (exclusion) and preferring something.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Dude, free land, all these community centers and organizations to help you find more work, free government money more than whites get. And if any white guy says anything bad about them then they get in so much shit, but when they start saying all this BS about us, no one flinches. It is racism against whites.

That's such a gross exaggeration of an already biased and uninformed perspective.

But I'm not going to get into that here.

Let's just agree to disagree on this one eh Tenchu and let the other discussion flow.

[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

We are talking about Japan and skin tone. Why does that have to be about you and your skin tone and me and my skin tone? We are not arguing about your race or your gender. You are not being asked to defend who you are, just the arguments you make. There is a separation there.

I have never regulated someones ability to discuss a topic on these forums by what their race and gender were (unless it was something that was a question to a Japanese native, but even then there are people non-Japanese qualified to answer many questions).

You quit reading that post of mine, and in my opinion that was an error on your part. I responded to all of your points up to that time in that post.

And you've proved my point exactly.

Please, just put any bad feelings or annoyance or anything negative aside for a second and just open your mind and listen to what I'm saying. I'm black. You're white. I'm talking to you about my race, when I've been discriminated against in history and most certainly in this lifetime. I've suffered internalized racism. And I'm telling you that I feel uncomfortable because of that.

Tenchu: I'm glad you're in Thailand and having that experience. If you hadn't, perhaps you wouldn't be able to relate to what I'm trying to express right now. I most certainly do think that white people can suffer racism. I live on an island of mostly African diaspora. There are very few white people. I've seen them discriminated against countless times. My own father has been extremely racist towards white people. I've had white friends tell me they feel uncomfortable walking down the street. It's a pain that people can share because we're all human beings.

I don't think this is something only black people feel. No one likes to be alienated, no one likes to feel oppressed. It's only because we were on the topic of "saying white skin is more beautiful than black skin" that I was so strongly defending the black perspective.

I can't forget what color I am, just like you can't forget you're white in Thailand. It's because society is alienating us. I won't bring up race until I see racism, as I won't bring up gender or sexuality unless I see sexism or homophobia. I personally feel that yes, having discussions like these does just separate us as people more, because we have to make it obvious that I am black and you are white.

But how else can we stand up for ourselves? We have to talk about it.