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10-15-2010, 08:56 PM
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When you say "here's the difference between は／が: with wa it means a bird, with ga it means the bird" and then don't say anything more about this, you are definitely making a categorical statement about が, and how it doesn't mean "a bird" because は means that instead. Perhaps a better way of saying what you meant would be to clarify that が can also be used in sentences about "a bird" as well. Because as it stands, it looks like you're saying it can't. And if I, a relatively learned speaker of Japanese and English, am getting confused by your explanation, surely people with less skill in one of the languages might be as well. 
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10-16-2010, 03:39 AM
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Below is what I wrote, it obviously shows OTHER forms and usages of ga and wa. The first to points out how they can play the role of 'a' and 'the' I will discuss below. there is an exception to this usage that someone pointed out but exceptions don't negate the general truthfulness of a statement. Specially if I'm trying to explain a complicated thing to a beginner who is confused. the next 6 examples after the two demonstrate the inclusion exclusion thing Steven was referring to in his post. The examples use: singular, plural,doing and going. Quote:
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If I knew people were going to look at my post as the end all document of 'wa' and "ga', I would have done research and spent days assembling a paper. This was a quick and friendly post answering a particular persons question. My only regret is that I didn't start my post with "This is what I think". Since I'm here, I'll like to add a few points after discussing the above argument with coworkers. 1) Toriga naku DOES specify a bird, but unlike English, we may not know which one. ( thats the exception). If you see a bird or hear a bird and then talk about it, you HAVE to use 'ga' people will think you strange if you say Toriwa naku. Notice that if you only heard the bird, you don't know which one, yet you are referring to the Specific one you heard. Toriwa naku has the rough translation as 'A bird sings' or 'bird sings' or 'birds sing'. (again English and Japanese are different) Example: Birds sing, dogs bark, men laugh. becomes in Japanese toriwa naku, inuwa hoeru, ningenwa warau. One would not use: toriga naku, inuga hoeru, ningenga warau. it would not be a general statement. notice in English, to make a generalization like 'birds sing' we need to use the plural. Bird sings is not a generalization about birds or a statement of fact. But in Japanese, we don't have to use plurals for generalizations. So toriwa naku is a generalization that means 'A bird sings' , 'birds sing' or 'bird sings'. So, without equivalent things between the languages, 'ga' does sometimes act like 'the' in that it focuses on or specifies. It does other things too but that was the point of list items 1 and 2 2) classde iku, classwa iku, classga iku. I discussed this at work with three people over 50yr and two part timers that are going to college(all Japanese like me). None had any problems with any of the three. Each has its own use. 'de' focuses on 'with the class' Among others, 'de' acts like 'as' ,'with' , 'by' , 'by way of' etc.. classde iku = [I'm] going with class or 'As a class [we] go' carde iku = [I'm] going by car first classde iku = [I'm] going by first class Here is an example you cannot use 'de' but have to use 'wa' or 'ga' depending on use. B-classwa yamani ikimasu demo A-Classwa umini ikimasu. Class-B is going to the mountains, but class-A is going to the beach. Furthermore, as a simple statistical proof, here are goggle searches of "classwa iku" and the other forms. The size of the results shows a lot of Japanese use Classwa or classga just like me. "クラスが行き" - Google Search "クラスが行く" - Google Search "クラスは行く" - Google Search "クラスは行き" - Google Search Last, just ask around. I'm confident you'll find a lot more people agreeing that classwa and classga are normal usage than those who would say that the usage is strange. 
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10-16-2010, 04:19 AM
オメーいい加減にしろ！本当に日本語知ってるならオレ と日本語で議論できるか、このローマ字使いが！
Ome, iikagennishiro! hontoni nihongo shitterunara oreto nihongode girondekiruka, kono romaji tsukaiga! First, f_ck you! watch your language! It is hard to write in Japanese and I have techinical problems, namely, I have to type into a text box and copy it over to the browser because my sandboxie doesn't' doesn't allow IME to work with Firefox. Next, prove your case. Idiot. What do you have to say about the links showing all those Japanese people using classwa? You don't even know what the word setsunai really means, your just going by what you think it means. Look it up and paste the English link.
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10-16-2010, 07:31 AM
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If you don't have the ability to answer properly, don't feel the pressure to do so. I used to answer a lot of Japanese language questions, but not I mostly step back to allow those that know better than I to answer. Unless I am 100% sure of an answer, I don't, or I say so.
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10-16-2010, 07:54 AM
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I still don't think I was in the wrong back up in the thread, but you don't think you were wrong, either, so let's agree to disagree. I don't want a petty fight with another person on JF.
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10-16-2010, 07:56 AM
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10-16-2010, 07:57 AM
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 But now others show up occasionally to add some additional flavorings to the JF soup. SM's help is still very appreciated, but it's nice that he doesn't have to basically bear the weight of our collective ignorance alone anymore!Quote:
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