Kanji character help needed!

[LittleSpoon]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Actually, we tested this a few years back when a friend was talking about getting an electronic dictionary because it would be "faster". We decided to test that theory. One friend brought their electronic dictionary, another friend used a dictionary on the PC, and I used a paper dictionary.

All 20 or so words we decided to look up were found most quickly in the paper dictionary. The electronic dictionary was the slowest, both to enter the words and to hunt for the right definition. The PC was the quickest to actually pull the entered word up, but it still took too long to find the needed meaning.
Both the electronic and PC dictionaries lacked example sentences to help clue you in on which was really the meaning you wanted.

I still find it incredibly fun to beat the boy I tutor. He has an electronic dictionary, which despite being state of the art, and very cool.... Still takes twice as long to use as a run of the mill paper dictionary. :P

Mm, yeah. The paper dictionary is much better. The only reason I have a electronic dictionary was because it was light and easy to carry around in Japan. And that wasn't really for looking up kanji, but words that I overheard.

[Nattybumppo]

I tried to be nice and type them up, but I got bored halfway through.

５：外、古、号、左、市、四、写、出、生、台、田、冬 、白、半、平、母、北、本、目、右
６：安、会、気、休、好、行、西、字、寺、耳、自、州 、成、先、多、地、同、肉、年、百、毎、名、有
７：何、花、近、見、私、社、車、住、図、赤、村、体 、町、男、売、来

[MMM]

You are a Kanji Saint. I hope you get the proper thanks.

[Simba]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Okay, here goes. I`m going to write a fairly offensive sounding reply.

The characters in these files are *clear* and *easy to read*. If you cannot read them, it means that you do not know them at all. You say you`ve done 400. Well, then you should definitely know most of those in the pdfs - especially as they appear to be in order of frequency. Common sense says that you should have studied these first.
If there are a handful which you are unable to read, that is one thing. But no, you`re asking for these entire lists to be typed up again so that you can do a copy+paste. Doesn`t sound much like a dedicated student to me.

If there are specific kanji you are having a problem with, ask about those. While I don`t mind helping people, I DO mind typing out their "homework" for them.

No, they're not clear/easy to read. In fact some of them simply look like blobs! Yes that's the problem, I don't know all of the kanji in that list. If I did know them I'd recognise them with much more success I'm sure, but I need to know what they are to learn them efficiently without going through all 2042 Heisig kanji! Are you familiar with the Heisig method? I've done the first 400 from there (well, just under 400), no more. That doesn't mean I know the 400 most frequently used.

Originally Posted by Nattybumppo

I tried to be nice and type them up, but I got bored halfway through.

５：外、古、号、左、市、四、写、出、生、台、田、冬 、白、半、平、母、北、本、目、右
６：安、会、気、休、好、行、西、字、寺、耳、自、州 、成、先、多、地、同、肉、年、百、毎、名、有
７：何、花、近、見、私、社、車、住、図、赤、村、体 、町、男、売、来

Fantastic, thank you so very, very much for those, that's so much help . I'm going to post this thread on another forum too to see if I can get help there.

Ok, so my little contribution is the ones you asked about from the 5 strokers.

号: ごう　As in 番号（ばんごう）（Number)
写:しゃ　As in 写真（Photo)
冬:ふゆ（Winter)

Thank you very much too ^_^ , yours and Natty's generosity is much appreciated!

I did discover a cool feature on my home computer where I can draw with my mouse the rough shape of a kanji and it brings up a list of options of ones it could be ! I'm going to have a try with it when I get home tonight.

I can offer maths help if anyone would like that in exchange for the rest of the kanji? I'm teaching calculus 5, and statistics 1/2 to seniors in high school this year, so I'm more than happy to help out with those.

[MMM]

You might need to get your computer checked. They don't look like blobs on this end.

[Simba]

Well take for example as an extreme the 18 strokes one. I recognise the 'sun'/'day' primitive bit on the left, but the bit on the right looks like nothing more than a homogenous blob of black ink.

Using the device I mentioned in my last post, I think that the character is: 曜

But there is no way of me being sure. It looks sort of similar .

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Simba

Well take for example as an extreme the 18 strokes one. I recognise the 'sun'/'day' primitive bit on the left, but the bit on the right looks like nothing more than a homogenous blob of black ink.

Using the device I mentioned in my last post, I think that the character is: 曜

But there is no way of me being sure. It looks sort of similar .

That's what it looks like to me.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Simba

Are you familiar with the Heisig method? I've done the first 400 from there (well, just under 400), no more. That doesn't mean I know the 400 most frequently used.

I don`t believe I`m familiar with this "Heisig" method... I`ve never actually studied Japanese. However, I must say that I have serious doubts on the effectiveness of a program which not only doesn`t teach in order of frequency, but leaves 曜, something you`ll encounter pretty much everyday (literally) - particularly in a classroom situation - out of the first 500 or so.

No, wait. I just checked up on the Heisig method. I AM familiar with it. I don`t know a single person who actually used it and was able to apply it to real life Japanese. It removes the kanji from common sense order and from context, so you`re left with these little floating characters that are connected with meanings that do not apply in real Japanese. And with images associated with the kanji that actually impair correct deduction of the meaning in unfamiliar words.
Seriously, it is an example of how NOT to create a natural textbook among linguistics scholars. Not to mention it uses supposed histories of characters that besides being incorrect, are downright racist in some cases. (I do hope they`ve taken some of those out in newer editions... Like the references to cannibalism, etc)

In other words - The Heisig method is not a good method. Unless, of course, your only aim is to somehow remember these characters - void of proper meaning and context.

[samokan]

Originally Posted by MMM

You might need to get your computer checked. They don't look like blobs on this end.

same here.. I can see them clearly and in fact I donT have a 20-20 vision so.. oh well..

[Simba]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I don`t believe I`m familiar with this "Heisig" method... I`ve never actually studied Japanese. However, I must say that I have serious doubts on the effectiveness of a program which not only doesn`t teach in order of frequency, but leaves 曜, something you`ll encounter pretty much everyday (literally) - particularly in a classroom situation - out of the first 500 or so.

No, wait. I just checked up on the Heisig method. I AM familiar with it. I don`t know a single person who actually used it and was able to apply it to real life Japanese. It removes the kanji from common sense order and from context, so you`re left with these little floating characters that are connected with meanings that do not apply in real Japanese. And with images associated with the kanji that actually impair correct deduction of the meaning in unfamiliar words.
Seriously, it is an example of how NOT to create a natural textbook among linguistics scholars. Not to mention it uses supposed histories of characters that besides being incorrect, are downright racist in some cases. (I do hope they`ve taken some of those out in newer editions... Like the references to cannibalism, etc)

In other words - The Heisig method is not a good method. Unless, of course, your only aim is to somehow remember these characters - void of proper meaning and context.

Really? So how do you suggest I learn the kanji? I find it difficult enough with Heisig - my memory isn't great and remembering 2000+ characters of an average of perhaps 10 strokes without any help from something like Heisig each seems like a very, very difficult task. Do you know of any things that teach them in frequency order? That would be great! Thanks!