Teaching English, seeking Japanese tuition

[YuriTokoro]

@覚さんへ。

I have one question and some other things.

(From “How I was astonished recently.”)
This was the premise upon which their discussion was based.

Can I say this?
Their discussion was based upon this premise.
What is the difference?

(From “Why Japan prefers a monocultural sociery.)
Yuri: Yes. In addition, our culture and spirit is different from yours; so when you behave ordinary, sometimes we can’t help feeling you are cowards because we do not have the culture of debate [not exactly sure what you mean here, perhaps elaborate a bit?]. I think Japanese people sometimes feel we have been argued down by foreign people.

I’m sorry; I have used a wrong word. It was not “cowards”, but “aggressive” or “forceful”.
Does this make sense?


From my previous post.
I forgot to say that men can add ね at the end of their words.
I will tell you how to add ね next time!

See you soon!

[YuriTokoro]

@覚さんへ。

I have other questions.


From I was astonished recently:

I didn’t imagine anyone thought that a diverse culture benefited everyone.

Can I say this?
I didn’t imagine that anyone thought a diverse culture benefited everyone.
What’s the difference?

Japanese culture is quite different from what you might expect.

Can I say this?
Japanese culture might be quite different from what you expect.


From Why Japan prefers a monocultural society:

You have written “the Japanese”.
Does this mean “all Japanese people”?
Can I say “all Japanese people”?
What are the differences among “the Japanese”, ”the Japanese people”, “Japanese people” and “all Japanese people”?


Thank you.

[yumyumtimtam]

Originally Posted by sarvodaya

Apparently we had a Japanese TV crew in the office yesterday. I must have missed them!

Still, keep an eye out and tell me if you see the OUP on tv.

Yes! It will be on TV sometime in September!!!

I emailed OUP Japan
They said they didn't know the details yet,
but they were sure that it would be in September!

Oh, you could be on TV right? but you missed them? Where WERE you???
We all would've enjoy watching you on TV!
OK, when they come again, please make sure that you wear a T-shirt saying
"わたしが覚　です".

It wasn't TV but I was once on the radio in Australia.Maybe in 1995.
They wanted to talk about what we overseas students thought about Australia, especially Sydney. It was a lot of fun having a interview like that.

I will definetly watch the TV programme!
Thank you for the info

[yumyumtimtam]

Originally Posted by sarvodaya

ヤムさん こんにちは!

　こんにちは　覚さん

Yes, let's come back to the monkey story a little later!
but please let me know when you'd like to try to read the subtitles, cos I've got all the lines typed in a file already

Yes, I couldn't read any of that...!

Oh, but you will !

I learnt that I have to write No, + negative sentense, but when it's colloquial, doesn't matter?

Erm, almost all of them...?

ほとんど　すべて　ですか？

すばらしい！

Actually it's not too bad. I'm trying to get used to them just by using them and going over things we've said here;
I find it very helpful to have examples. As I get used to them, though,
I'm picking up on patterns that don't make sense to me.
For instance:
ま and よ have similarities of form, but sound completely different.
As with え and ん and others...
But I guess I'm only looking for patterns because their are patterns of same vowels and same consonants in the sounds,
which don't correspond to any of the same forms;
whereas in English the letters have not born any significance in themselves for thousands of years,
so perhaps I shouldn't be looking for a pattern...?

To tell you the truth...I was writing and drawing to try to explain these formations of ひらがな... but it wasn't going well... so I couldn't reply you sooner, Im sorry.
BUT I finally found the best website for you!
It's much much much much better than my writing and drawing!
I just loved it and hope you will love it too!
http://www.ugoky.com/hiragana/hiragana_ugoky.swf
(I really liked it and sent an email to the creater to thank him!)

Ah yes, that's good, but I don't get the second one; why is q like 9?

OK, I will give you a clue then (Please see the pic below)

A quiz sounds good...

Would you like to try a ひらがなquiz next time?

行ってきます!

　 どこに？

hahaha I'm joking.

but maybe you can add to tell me where you go or why you go.

そろそろ　しごとに行く　じかんです。

（では）、行ってきます！


How about this?

いま　ともだちが　ビールをもって　あそびに　きまし た。

では　ちょっと　のんできます！

see you

[YuriTokoro]

Originally Posted by yumyumtimtam

Yes! It will be on TV sometime in September!!!

Which TV station?

[sarvodaya]

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro

覚さん、こんばんは。

ゆりさん、こんにちは。

Your expressions seem to be very unique.
Do British people usually speak like you?

Indeed! I suppose I do tend to prefer slightly tongue-in-cheek use of comic metaphor and absurdity to add a bit of colour to my expressions. This is probably less common nowadays, but I like it. I suspect that this is part of a major difference between English and Japanese: in Japanese you seem to use many formal set phrases, whereas in English we simply make things up as we go along.

In English the use of formulaic language is in a class of its own as opposed to being the norm. Things become clichés very quickly, and people want to avoid using clichés as they think it makes them sound unimaginative. However, on the other hand, people sometimes deliberately use such clichés to make a point, perhaps to make a point of view seem outdated or simplistic or perhaps to suggest a certain perspective is merely fashionable and without real weight, for example. It is quite difficult to explain, but try to keep your eyes peeled for set phrases in English and see if they are playing such roles.

Sometimes, yes.
However, there are some other ways to make women’s way.

For example:
Could you pass me the salt, please?：
≒（Both men and women）　「塩（しお）をとってくださいませんか」「塩� ��とっていただけますか」
（a little less polite）　「塩をとってくれませんか」「塩をとってくだ さい」
(women sometimes)　「塩をとってくださいません？」

Pass me the salt!：
≒（both）「塩をとって」
（a little politer than　「塩をとって」）　「塩をとってくれる？」
（men: a little politer than 「塩をとって」）　「塩を(とって)くれないか」
（men）　「塩を(とって)くれ」
(women)　「塩を(とって)ちょうだい」「塩を(とって)くれ� ��い？」「お塩ちょうだい」「お塩とってくれる？」

Salt!：
≒（Both）「塩!」

I think there are too many expressions.
So, at first, you should learn only polite expressions. Otherwise, you would go insane.

Haha! I think you are right. Are you aware that this sentence: "Otherwise, you would go insane." is slightly amusing? If not, ask me about it.

Thank you; I've put that in my book. I'll try to memorise the polite versions. Can I simply replace 塩 with something else that I want to have passed to me?

I just want you to listen to the Japanese pronunciation many times.

Once, I had an American friend. (He is not my friend any more, I think.)
He started studying Japanese and came to Japan for a week.
A cat is “neko” in Japanese, but he said it “neekou”, shoes is “kutsu”, but he said “kuutsuu”, so I didn’t understand what he said at all.
I just want you to get used to the Japanese sounds. I think you understand what I mean. After you have listened to the sound a lot, you will say it easily.
By the way, he(my ex-friend) was an attorney and very sure he would learn Japanese soon. However, he seems to have given up Japanese and grown to dislike Japan.

Yes, I know that's very important, especially as I am not in Japan and so cannot be exposed to Japanese sounds all the time. Your ex-friend sounds like a typical American, but I shouldn't really say such things!

Genius! You are talented!

ありがとうございました!
I think you may be overestimating my abilities though! I can tell that I can hardly understand the whole song properly yet, but I can catch glimpses of the meaning. I have not yet learned enough to understand it thoroughly.

Japanese lyrics are very difficult to translate into English, and yet you have done excellently.
あるいてゆくcan have many meanings. In this song it means something like “carry on living”.
ふみしめて can be step firmly, but the Japanese sentence has something more, you know, this song is about a life, not just some roads.

So I would translate these two lines as:
Carry on steadily
Keeping your foot firmly on your way
(This is liberal translation, though)

However, my English is really bad. I’m not sure my English makes sense.
Frankly speaking, I can’t tell your translation’s hidden shades of meanings or something.
Yours must be really great.

Not at all! I think I was adding structure that isn't there in the original. Looking at your translation, I think the best way to bring out the meaning would be something like:

Carry on steadily
Keeping your foot firmly upon your chosen path

Perhaps this brings out more that you have to choose where you're going and have the courage to carry through that choice to the end, which is what I think the song is getting at. Is that correct?

人生　涙と笑顔あり（じんせい　なみだとえがおあり）

In life there are both tears and smiles

そんなに悪くは　ないもんだ　（そんなにわるくは　な いもんんだ）

?things are not so bad?

なんにもしないで　生きるより　（なんにもしないで　 いきるより）

[??I'm really not sure of this one, but how about this:] by refusing to become nothing, choose to live

何かを求めて　生きようよ　（なにかをもとめて　いき ようよ）

Set a goal [lit: seek something] and live!

If you feel like saying something about my comment, I will accept your challenge!!
However, I’ve never learned how to debate at all. Most Japanese schools don’t teach it. In Japanese society, it is supposed that the silent type is better than silver tongue.
In addition, I don’t even know what real debate is. So, when you find my comment is strange, tell me, please.

We were never really taught to debate as such. There was a debating society at school, but I was never really very interested in that. Let's just see how we go anyway...

It’s鎖国. I’ve never heard the word海禁. This may be Chinese?

I only know what it says on wikipedia about the terminology! Apparently 海禁 is derived from the Chinese concept, but was used during the Edo period itself to describe the policy more as a "restriction" than a total "seclusion", implying that trade and cultural exchange was not completely eliminated, but tightly controlled and limited. It also says that people have started using this term more nowadays, but obviously that's not the case!

New Expressions:

You say 「いただきます」when you start eating.
This 「いただきます」is usually translated as “Let’s eat!”, but this expression is not only a call, but an expression of thanks to the cook, the person who has afforded the food, the gods, the nature and all the things which have produced the food.
So you should say this with a sense of gratitude.
The person who has made the food also says this.

ありがとうございました。
I understand. In the west we have many different customs that coexist as a result of multiculturalism. There is quite a good wikipedia page about it:

Grace (prayer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see there are many different formulaic Christian expressions of gratitude, but as it says, it is far more common for people to make up a small prayer on the spot. People generally thank God and less commonly the host for the meal and perhaps for bringing the guests together in fellowship or for prosperity or some such.

Nowadays this custom has become even less common however. I think the Japanese way is very nice. Some people feel uncomfortable saying grace as it constitutes an overt expression of religiosity, so it is nice to have a fairly neutral but respectful expression of gratitude.

Some people even try to overcome this awkwardness by using a comical formula such as "rub-a-dub-dub, thanks for the grub!"

I think it is a great shame to eat without expressing gratitude, and so it is sad that people have begun to feel uncomfortable with our various traditional ways of expressing gratitude in the west. It would be much better if we had a word or phrase like 「いただきます」 to use.

When you finish eating, you say 「ごちそうさまでした」...
You should say it with a sense of gratitude too.

Notwithstanding everything I said above about grace, it is perfectly normal and expected that guests will thank the host in some way after a meal. It would be considered quite rude not to come up with something like "Oh, that was such a lovely meal, thank you."

After you say ごちそうさまでした, the cook replies;
「おそまつさまでした」
そまつ（粗末） means meager, but when the food was not meager, the cook still says this.
I believe this original was;
When you have guests and cooked for them, you say 「おそまつさまでした」meaning “Don’t mind about the food. You don’t need to repay. You can forget.”
These days, this expression has become daily words.

I like this custom very much. I will remember it.

それでは、日本語、がんばってください。Take it easy!

ありがとうございました。
がんばります!

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro

If you like the song, I’m very happy.

Yes!! You need courage to live!!

Sorry. I don’t understand what you mean.
So I write here the meaning of these two lines in Japanese.

No, I'm sorry; I got that wrong.

あなた/わたしが　誰かに（だれかに）/何かで（なにかで）　負けたと（まけたと）　思って（ おもって）　止まっている（とまっている）　間に（あ いだに）、

I think this means: "when you/I have lost someone/something and feel like giving up [literally: plan to stop]"

誰か（だれか）　ほかの人（ひと）が　あなた/わたしの　先に行きます（さきにいきます）

I can't quite understand this line; something about "some other person"? and "before/previously to live"? I should understand but I'm confused...

Is it "other people have lived before you" in the sense of "others have trodden this path before you"?

後から（あとから）　来た人に（きたひとに）　追い越 されて（おいこされて）

"From behind came a person and passed you by"?

I feel very dim-witted, what am I missing!?

the writer has avoided あなたorわたし in the lyrics on purpose.
In English, you just can say “you” meaning both the speaker and the listeners, but in Japanese, the word would beわたしたちorわれわれ(我々), and these words can’t fit this song.
So the writer didn’t put the subject.

I understand...

[sarvodaya]

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro

@覚さんへ。

I have one question and some other things.

"This was the premise upon which their discussion was based."

Can I say this?
Their discussion was based upon this premise.
What is the difference?

I have just been reading about this in Japanese. In the first example makes it clear that "the premise" is the focus and "their discussion" is the topic. Doing so emphasises your surprise that this formed a premise of their discussion. To be clear, a premise is something that is taken for granted, it has a logically distinct position in an argument. It is something that an argument relies upon, but which is not questioned in itself; rather it is assumed to be true. Thus, by using the word order I showed you, you are emphasising that it surprised you to see that the professor was taking this statement for granted.

I’m sorry; I have used a wrong word. It was not “cowards”, but “aggressive” or “forceful”.
Does this make sense?

Ah, I see, that makes more sense. So you meant "we can’t help feeling you are aggressive because we do not have the culture of debate"

I think a good word for you to use would be "overbearing"; do you know this word?

From my previous post.
I forgot to say that men can add ね at the end of their words.
I will tell you how to add ね next time!

I'll look forward to it!

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro

@覚さんへ。

I have other questions.


From I was astonished recently:
"I didn’t imagine anyone thought that a diverse culture benefited everyone."

Can I say this?
I didn’t imagine that anyone thought a diverse culture benefited everyone.
What’s the difference?

Yes, you can. There isn't really any difference!

"Japanese culture is quite different from what you might expect."
Can I say this?
Japanese culture might be quite different from what you expect.

Yes, you can. In this case there is a slight difference. The first example suggests that there is a well-defined expectation that some people have, that Japanese culture definitely differs from that expectation and that the reader may or may not be such a person as to hold that expectation. On the other hand, the second example merely suggests that it is possible that Japanese culture is different from what you expect as an individual.

Thus, in using the first of the two sentences, you emphasise that you are aware of either particular disparities between Japanese culture and foreign cultures or particular misconceptions that people commonly have about Japanese culture.

From Why Japan prefers a monocultural society:

You have written “the Japanese”.
Does this mean “all Japanese people”?

Technically, yes, although it is usually understood as "most Japanese people" or "the majority of Japanese people" because everyone knows you can't really generalise to a whole nation.

Can I say “all Japanese people”?

Yes. The only reason I changed it was because it sounds a bit odd to say "people" twice so close together! In English we usually avoid repeating the same word too often unless we have a particular reason to do so.

What are the differences among “the Japanese”, ”the Japanese people”, “Japanese people” and “all Japanese people”?

"the Japanese people" has a connotation of "the Japanese nation". Here "the people" is being used as a collective noun. As a result a sense of unity is implied. Compare the famous statement: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union..." This phrase "we the people" has come to symbolise the idealised democratic process. As a result of this unity, claims about what "the Japanese people" do or don't believe etc are akin to statements about the public consciousness, which, though useful, can be nebulous.

In "Japanese people", on the other hand, people is more like a typical plural of person. You can say persons, but it is quite formal and usually reserved for specific purposes. Thus "Japanese people" is the most common way to express "persons from Japan".

"all Japanese people" emphasises that not a single Japanese person is left out from what you are saying. Thus "All Japanese people do not hate people because of religion or skin color", while a little awkward, is equivalent to "Not a single Japanese person hates people because of religion or skin color".

If that is what you want to say that's fine, but I find it hard to believe! No nation can be so perfect.

Thank you.

どういたしまして。
覚

[sarvodaya]

ヤムさん、こんばんは。

Originally Posted by yumyumtimtam

I remember when I was a full time student, my dictionaries and I were like best friends! My favourite was OALD recommended by my favourite teacher from Manchester.
I used it not only for looking up words, but for browsing and really enjoyed it. (Im not sure if browse is the right word...)

It is the right word.

Now I decided to buy me a new dictionary!

It is correct to say "buy myself a new dictionary". People sometimes jokingly say something like "I'm gonna buy me a new..." but this is not correct. It is meant as a joke.

My favourite OALD is now 10 years old and actually it's missing right now in my messy class room.

覚さん、Would you give me advice?
I was going to buy the latest OALD, but do you think I should choose one a bit easier? like "Oxford Wordpower Dictionary"?

If I were you I would go for the latest OALD. It comes with good software and obviously has a magnificent pedigree. If there is anything in there that you need help with you can just ask me! The OALD will last you longer as you grow into it.

I thought I needed a bilingual one too so I looked for it
Oxford University Press
I just wonder why there is Korean-English dictionary but not Japanese-English one...because less and less people are interested in Japanese?

We do have some, but none for Japanese leaners of English, which is a shame. Here are some links:

OUP: Takebayashi: Pocket Kenkyusha Japanese Dictionary - Oxford University Press

OUP: Oxford Beginner's Japanese Dictionary - Oxford University Press

OUP: Basic Japanese-English Dictionary - Oxford University Press

OUP: Bunt: Oxford Japanese Mini Dictionary - Oxford University Press

Oxford University Press | Oxford Picture Dictionary

Oxford Picture Dictionary Second Edition English-Japanese Edition - Oxford University Press

ゆりさん's blog was interesting!I read some and I wanted to post what I thought, but I think I need some time too,to write proper one because I don't want to ruin her blog with my wrong English! It looks like she has been working hard!

Now I have to go back to work!
I started renovating my class room from Saturday but haven't finished yet so it's very messy here.

Do you enjoy DIY work? ("Do you do DIY work?" is proper here?)

You can do DIY without enjoying it, but you can't enjoy it without doing it! "Do you enjoy DIY?" is fine.

I do, but I'm always busy doing something else. It is very satisfying to complete something useful and look at it, saying with a simple pride "I made that".

I do and I like breaking things in parts and using them to make something different, recycling!
So my carpenter friend gave me an electric drill! Cool!

I will be back when I finished my DIY work.

PS: Please say こんにちは to the monkeys for me next time you see them!

Originally Posted by yumyumtimtam

Yes, let's come back to the monkey story a little later!
but please let me know when you'd like to try to read the subtitles, cos I've got all the lines typed in a file already

You're too good ヤムさん!

I learnt that I have to write No, + negative sentence, but when it's colloquial, doesn't matter?

It depends on the context. In this case I was saying "yes" to agree with your comment that:

there are too many 漢字s, so let's come back here together to read them when you feel more comfortable with 漢字s.

Generally it will be clear to the listener from the context what you mean, and there aren't hard and fast rules concerning yes/no with negative sentences like there are in other languages. Sometimes it is better to stick to "no" for increased clarity, but it doesn't really matter.

ほとんど　すべて　ですか？

"Almost all of them?"

すばらしい！

"Marvellous!"

There is a well-known British comedian, Paul Merton, who always used to say "Ennit marvellous!" as a sort of catchphrase.

Paul Merton: The Series (1991) - Memorable quotes

To tell you the truth...I was writing and drawing to try to explain these formations of ひらがな... but it wasn't going well... so I couldn't reply you sooner, Im sorry.
BUT I finally found the best website for you!
It's much much much much better than my writing and drawing!
I just loved it and hope you will love it too!
http://www.ugoky.com/hiragana/hiragana_ugoky.swf
(I really liked it and sent an email to the creater to thank him!)

I will be sure to have a look.

OK, I will give you a clue then (Please see the pic below)

Of course! Now I remember フィル・スヌーイン先生 used to count to us in Japanese. く or きゅう is 9!

Would you like to try a ひらがなquiz next time?

Yes, please!

Now it is late, I will be back tomorrow!

おやすみなさい

覚

[yumyumtimtam]

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro

Which TV station?

ゆりさん　thay didn't know the details yet, including the channel.
I will let you know as soon as I get the new info

[YuriTokoro]

Originally Posted by yumyumtimtam

ゆりさん　thay didn't know the details yet, including the channel.
I will let you know as soon as I get the new info

よろしく!　　　待ってまーーーす。