Originally Posted by survivingonrice (Post 694873)

plus, i think so many people are out to make north korea a 'bad country'...what exactly is so bad about it? that it wants to make nuclear weapons? well, other countries have their share of them, why can't north korea...?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 694849)

I read Tenchu's analogy. It was as pointless as your addition to it. Which is why I responded in the way I did.

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 695115)

Some countries arn't ready for democracy. Just a fact. It takes time. Hundreds of years in the west.

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 695109)

He has done a lot, but I thought people were expecting change. I don't see it. He doesn't have the power that people viewed the spirit of his campaign as having; paper tiger.

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 695126)

He went from being all talk to doing a lot. Which is it?

You are an Australian living in Thai, so I don't expect you to to have a first-hand knowledge, but you don't need to criticize EVERYTHING, do you?

Did some people have bigger expectations? Well, not really...it's only been less than 5% of his first term

Did some people have lower expectations? Of course. And they criticize the way he steps off a plane. No president had been more scrutinized than Obama, especially before he has even been in office 80 days, but he is handling it like a champ. Bush got into office and immediately went on vacation. No one gave a crap.

It is obviously a new generation.

Originally Posted by Sinestra (Post 695272)

MMM everyone is critic you know that. We all can be critical it takes less energy to be negative about EVERYTHING in the world than to be positive about baby steps. We could name any leader of a foreign country in here and someone would find a way to say how crappy a leader they are or how they do nothing or how they are not qualified for the job. Its easier to criticize than to give your own ideas on actually FIXING a problem.

Iv possed this question several times and I got a DUH answer everytime. If you know how to run a country better than the guy already doing so then put up or shut up. The fact remains we can all sit here and criticize all we want but none of us have the stones to step into a leaders shoes including Obama. If people think they know best then give options of how to solve some of the worlds problems instead of being a naysayer consistently.

Its how things work around here you know better than most.

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 695126)

Did some people have lower expectations? Of course. And they criticize the way he steps off a plane. No president had been more scrutinized than Obama, especially before he has even been in office 80 days, but he is handling it like a champ. Bush got into office and immediately went on vacation. No one gave a crap.

It is obviously a new generation.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

MMM everyone is critic you know that. We all can be critical it takes less energy to be negative about EVERYTHING in the world than to be positive about baby steps. We could name any leader of a foreign country in here and someone would find a way to say how crappy a leader they are or how they do nothing or how they are not qualified for the job. Its easier to criticize than to give your own ideas on actually FIXING a problem.

Originally Posted by cridgit001 (Post 695304)

My solution, a quick drop and a sudden stop.

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 695284)

People have given there opinions on how to run the country, EVERY single time, Obama spouts "I won so I get my way". It's the deal with the so called "stimulus package" that was rushed through congress, without anytime to read what was in the stupid thing.

Originally Posted by cridgit001 (Post 695304)

My solution, a quick drop and a sudden stop.

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 695284)

People have given there opinions on how to run the country, EVERY single time, Obama spouts "I won so I get my way". It's the deal with the so called "stimulus package" that was rushed through congress, without anytime to read what was in the stupid thing. there's a great guy from the British Parliament (he's on youtube) that pretty bluntly said you cannot spend, or barrow your way out of debt, it doesn't happen. You know what the opposite was said? STOP spending and conserve the money, with tax deductions. Others also have proposed to let companies fall (like real capitalism) and let the system sort itself out. That's a difference on running a country isn't it? IThe problem is, Obama doesn't care for others opinions. It's like Tim Geithner wanting to take over Companies that he sees as a financial risk to US economy.

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 695110)

What about the US and China? Brotherly?

What does China prefer, a N. Korean communist neighbour, or a strong US military presence for the next 100 years right over the border?

Keep you friends far, your enemies even further.

Originally Posted by Jaydelart (Post 695297)

Let's not make it sound like Bush had it easy.
Bush was bombarded with criticism and ridicule for the majority of his term.


Nicely played. I can relate to that argument, but I don't buy the way you've implemented it.
Again, a lot of negativity had been thrown Bush's way, despite the positive results that came from some of his decisions. So, according to your argument, Bush was treated somewhat unfairly also.

In the end, I'm not sure that's the right route to take.
That's almost a method of labeling all negativity unjustified or useless, and I'm sure you don't believe that. Criticism and negativity can be based on valid reasoning.

The President is in service of the people -- not the other way around. In this respect, criticism is an indication of a healthy democracy; it exemplifies the nature in the right of Freedom of Speech.

I'd also like to remind you that simply giving your own ideas can lead to criticism, especially when these ideas contradict or oppose that of the leader. In addition, not all suggestions are going to be logical and adequate.

I'm not excusing excessive negativity, but the difference between productive criticism and irrational pessimism should be clarified.

On a more personal note, I disagree with your "none of us have the stones to step up" statement. To put it simply: you don't know.

Originally Posted by Sinestra (Post 695369)

I agree with you and half the arguments or discussions around here proved to be productive i would not get as annoyed as i do. I believe as well healthy criticism is a sign of a healthy democracy. I patted Bush on the back when deserved it and i bashed when he deserved it. I will do the same to Obama but i am willing to give him some time in office before i start launching hellfire rockets his way the same way i handled Bush's term.

Originally Posted by cridgit001 (Post 695304)

My solution, a quick drop and a sudden stop.

Originally Posted by jesselt (Post 695311)

Obama hasn't taken that attitude at all. He's tried ridiculously hard to be bipartisan (too hard in fact) with all of his decisions. It's just unfortunate that the Republicans refuse to support any plans because they're too busy covering their ears and screaming about socialism. What you are talking about is the attitude that Bush took throughout his presidency. Bush constantly pushed for things that he knew the majority of the country did not support if it meant pleasing Exxon and Focus on the Family.


Except that it does happen. Crack open a history book. Spending on certain things revitalizes the economy by creating jobs and restoring communities. Do you know what historically doesn't help or make any sense at all?...


Yes the economy will just magically get better if we stop spending money. Because that's how economies work; the less money you spend the better they become. It worked well in preventing the Great Depression, didn't it? Oh wait. Also, I love it when people just scream about capitalism and how it is always the savior. Capitalism is extremely broken and simply doesn't work without some form of governmental oversight. If we simply let all of these companies fail it would just throw us even deeper into the recession - people would lose the warranties on their cars, banks would close and people would lose their investments, housing foreclosures would increase. But don't worry because that's just CAPITALISM and I'm sure it will just rebound when we are all dead. Socialism works very well when mixed with capitalism. Without some form of socialism we wouldn't have libraries, highways, public schools, or countless other things you wouldn't even consider giving up.
This whole recession wasn't caused by Democrats, no matter what Sean Hannity tells you. Republicans were the ones who constantly removed vital regulations that helped stabilize our economy in the first place. Republicans were the ones who insisted on lower taxes for the extremely rich in the name of Reagan-Esq trickle down economics, which has been proven time and again to NOT WORK. Republicans have vilified the democratic party as tax-hungry communists and convinced people that you could somehow reduce debt without raising taxes.


Except that, as I said before, Obama has bent over backwards to cooperate with Republicans and it has cost him too much. In order to get minor support the stimulus bill has been greatly weakened and he's postponed or given up on important oversights that are lacking from our country. The Republicans had their chance; they inherited a country that was stable and in good economic shape and managed to start two wars, cripple education, and thrust the country into an economic crisis. Now it's Obama's turn, and it's laughable to think that he would be able to undo 8 years of terrible legislation in a mere two months.

Originally Posted by Sinestra (Post 695367)

Proven example of previous statement. In all of that where is your opinion where is your fix? All i read was about what others have said i know what their views are i read it everyday.

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 695390)

NO, the stimulus bill was horribly bad. NO bill has any value when no one in congress has read it, to pass it.

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 695390)

NO, the stimulus bill was horribly bad. NO bill has any value when no one in congress has read it, to pass it. Secondly when did it become sound to try to spend your way out of debt? Does it have to be said of the ridiculous pork that was in it? Also when did Afghanistan become an "bad war"? Throwing money at an broken education system sounds great, until you realize that your wasting money that could be used to actually reform the system. I do think Berny frank was one of the leading people who told us we were "sound", and guess what he's Democrat.

I"m sorry but the USA is an capitalism society and our system is only set up to support Capitalism. You actually need to look up what caused the great depression and how we got out of it. I don't get when we bail out companies that have proven later to actually need MORE money, to be a good thing. Umm, capitalism and socialism doesn't work together never did, and are total opposites of each other. Your an fool to think that democrats are free from causing this recession when they even forget that we are in one and continue to spend. I"m sorry to again remind you I actually look up what I"m talking about, which amounts to more thinking my party an God-send.

So I can go out tomorrow and get as much credit cards as I want to spend and have the others to pay off the dept on the first card? Let me modify my argument for an bit to get the point across. When did borrowing money from China count as good economic growth? That said, the concept of taking money YOU DON"T HAVE to spurt more money is just idiotic.

Obama has mocked the notion that a stimulus bill shouldn't include huge spending. He's also defended earmarks as inevitable in such a package. And he's pointedly reminded Republicans about who won the November election. when you have virtually no bipartisan support, your having an problem. There's an fundamental disagreement between Obama and Financial-Conservatives, the stimulus bill hit it big time. Point being there was no bipartisanship in the stimulus bill.

Originally Posted by jesselt (Post 695536)

You aren't even using common sense, so there's not much point in trying to debate this. I'll just say that firstly, you have to spend money to make money (look up "Investment") and secondly, there are tons of socialized programs in our country (all those things I pointed out like libraries that you ignored) so socialism and capitalism do work together. Total capitalism without government oversight is called "anarchism"

Originally Posted by kirakira (Post 695544)

You have to spend money INVESTING to make money, i.e. build infrastructure so Americans can raise their exports to pay off their stupendous debt. But all the stimulous bill does is spend more money on CONSUMPTION (buy MORE cars, MORE iPods, MORE Plasma TVs) which can't be considered wealth generating assets so essentially, no the stimulous bill is crap.

Oh and when's the last time Command economy worked? Let's see.... never. So don't even think about making the argument that the government knows better than the market where to invest in an economy through stimulous spending. Bullocks.

Originally Posted by cridgit001 (Post 695633)

My thoughts exactly, anyone know what Russia thinks about all this(NK and the missile). They are after all, their other neighbor.

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 696469)

It is "Thailand", silly.

Okay. We'll continue this in a year or two. You know he'll fail.

Also, I bet I know more about the US government and doings than most Americans. Do you really have no idea how much the US is covered on international TV abroad? This is the second time I've said this to you.

That guy is smart. He should be the PM.

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 696469)

Okay. We'll continue this in a year or two. You know he'll fail.

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 696469)

Also, I bet I know more about the US government and doings than most Americans. Do you really have no idea how much the US is covered on international TV abroad? This is the second time I've said this to you.

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 696469)

That guy is smart. He should be the PM.

Originally Posted by cridgit001 (Post 696474)

I noticed how he offered no solutions and only criticism.

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 696472)

Yes yes yes...why does Obama even try? He's already failed. :confused:

I am curious as to what is wrong with the way Pres. Obama is approaching N. Korea?

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 696479)

Bush and Clinton did the same thing... nothing significantly improved confronting North Korea. For average South Koreans, any words from some US president talking about North Korea don't think seriously to them. They are merely empty words.

Let South Korea lead the North Korea issues, NOT America. It's that simple.

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 696481)

Oh, and MMM, what would I do different? Simply, I wouldn't be the same person as who Obama is, then people'd believe my shit.