lol!! that's right!

a few months after I arrived one of my friends told me a story about when he and another friend ate at a restaurant near my house, and I was like "why didn't you knock on my door to see what I was up to?! I could have joined you guys!" and the reaction was pure confusion and a little shock and disbelief followed by an "are you kidding?" look haha

Could all this be partly because the Japanese, as a whole, treasure the little privacy they have and respect others' privacy as well?

well im pretty sure it apart of it the culture in itself definitely agree upon that.
you dont have that much privacy here in japan because of the amount of space here.

it also with trying to keep the peace, the zen. doing whatever it takes to achieve it as well. It not a bad aspect of the culture until it start affect your relationship with them.

I hear about privacy being an issue in Japan very often, but honestly... that's nonsense, I have far far far more privacy here than I did anywhere else in the world, with or without people dropping by lol.

To be honest I'm not sure why such things don't happen often... privacy feels like an excuse, not the real reason...

do you feel like you have less privacy in Japan? really?

no not really. i agree with you statement about it being an excuse. but in some apartments when you can hear other people conversations you lose some of your privacy. because other people can hear but outside of that. no not really. there others way to you can achieve privacy.

In the 3 places I've lived there were concrete walls and floors, the only time I ever heard the neighbors was when both my door and their door was open.

In Canada I often heard my neighbors having sex or fighting...
Either there's less sex and less fighting here, or both of them are quieter, or the buildings I'm in are a lot better haha

I've felt a lot more privacy here.

People here do seem to not mind being alone though...

Oh and drinking alone as much as you want every night is totally legit and okay in Japan. Not antisocial. Not in need of medical help. Normal.
I still can't get over that lol.

a "What's your passtime?"
b "drinking"
a "Oh with who? Where?"
b "no one... at home"
a "...oh... you mean with like.. your wife or girlfriend?"
b "no just me, watching tv, last night I got really drunk! I still have a hang over"
a "so why do you drink alone? why not with friends?"
b "just to relax... unwind... refresh, it helps me sleep"
a "I see... you might not want to tell too many westerners about that..."

Whaaaa? My dad drinks a few beers every night by himself watching TV to "unwind" too. It helps him sleep better. In fact I know plenty of other people like that who aren't really alcoholics. (I'm American BTW) I don't think that's weird at all. :confused: I guess it's different in Canada.

I don't know, I find that as an American stigma too. There's always that joke, "Don't drink by yourself, people will think you're an alcoholic." I'm not how sure you are (and I'm in no way calling you immature) but if you hang around a lot of friends who can legally drink, you'll hear about this kind of thing a lot more often, like busting their balls about it if they just want to sit home.

Why do they have the highest debt to GDP ratio of any industrialised nation on the planet? .[/quote]

This is true but unlike USA only 5% is foreign debt. Also the economic glory years may be well behind, but don't write of Japan as an economic power. They have the technological know how and innovative approaches.

thats an interesting point James. My Japanese friend is so upset with me because I dared to visit her lodgings when I was worried about her. she has been really Off with me ever since-- yet We have always welcomed her to our home. I should stick to HER SCHEDULE----------

If she carries on throwing a wobbly I'd break it off with her. You can only put up with so much in this life. I've noticed a common problem with people nowadays is they tolerate circumstances,things that they shouldn't necessarily.

Oh James, unfortunetly it doesn't matter how many friends you have in this situation. You just aren't entitled to make that claim I am sorry.
I thought the same would count for my person.. remember?

Bobby, don't want to be mean, but WE, as in James, Siokan, I and several others, have first hand experieince DEALING with Japanese, not only we dealth with them, we LIVED there (in James and Siokan's case, they LIVE THERE NOW). The "Generalization" is base on actual experience living there.

What is your exposure to Japanese and its people? I mean, we are not asking for much, we are justifying (And QUANTIFYING) our claim base one experiences, and base on news/events that we gathered through out the years

So, tell us, what makes your ideas and claim more accurate?

They aren't more accurate not at all, I also never said such a silly thing. You guys seriously lick something on here..
James makes the claim he would know every Japanese and their way to hang out with their friends.. I think he doesn't. Same as I cannot know that Japanese are lovely people overall because I have only met several :ywave:

It's just the same applies to everyone by this theory.. even though this theory is highly flawed of course, like I was trying to point out on the first day James was trying to apply this theory on us.

This is what you said in another thread:

The items in BOLD are what I'm talking about. You're the one not reading your own posts. You're not making any sense....

You cleary missed the context again John.

Perhaps....

:cool: Why are you all so serious having arguments all the time? Why can't you just chill?

Because this is an Online Forum.

I tried to be a good member on here.. but people will attack you all the freakin time.

What is this? An Online Forum right ;)


even people who have the biggest prejudice of World War II get a pass online..

I don't agree, I don't consider it an argument, people uses research, experience, historical data and facts to backup their opinion, this make it a debate, and that's what a forum is for.

It's not an attack, if our posts are consider an attack, then you also did your share of attacking..

Like the case with another female member on the forum previously (bl**jeansla*y), we are just asking that if you want everyone to agree with you, give us facts and figures to quantify your theory

Other members spotted conflicting post from you and voice it out, that's all that I read, I don't know where the attack came from.....

Well put, so let's have this part of the bickering end here. I am seeing too many threads reduced to senseless and off topics back-and-forths, and I am seeing the same names come up again and again. I would rather temp-ban obnoxious posters than close otherwise interesting threads, and I will if these interactions keep up.

This is pretty normal. A home is not a social gathering place in Japan for adults for the most part. If you want to meet a friend you schedule a time and a place (usually outside at a cafe or restaurant or wherever) and that's where you socialize.

Just as you wouldn't want someone to enter your home without knocking, a Japanese person would not want you visiting her home without invitation.

It can't be normal to absolutely loathe the person because of that incident.

what do you mean by that and where is your avy?:confused:

the point is that usually we were always in touch-- she was not at school and I was extremely worried about her-- thought she must be ill.

We have done a great deal for her and friends surely should be welcome at any time. This lady always kept her phone switched off so that nobody could ever contact her. she likes to control US but not keen when its the other way round. The lady she lodges with is a Philipino and asked us in -- almost insisted when I asked after my friend. My friend did not inform her own family when she broke her arm. We helped her out a great deal during that time- she practically was here every day. We have helped her when she has worried about her Visa etc. If one can't contact someone by phone and is very worried is it so wrong to go and find out?

We have always had an open door for her at any time.

I see two different things going on here:

1) It sounds like she has had a certain level of break from reality. If she stopped leaving the house, stopped going to school, stopped answering the phone, stopped contacting her family, etc. I have seen this happen with an American and a Englishman living in Japan, and it sounds like very similar situations. It may be some form of culture shock/homesickness. She deserves some compassion, and probably should get some professional help.

2) You are applying your cultural values onto a person with a very different set of cultural values. You said "If one can't contact someone by phone and is very worried is it so wrong to go and find out?" And the answer in Japan is "YES! It is none of your business! Leave me alone!" The fact that you and your friends are not reading the clear signals she is sending you is only making her more frustrated, and (probably) making her more crazy.

I was good friends with my downstairs neighbor, another single man living in a one room apartment. In the three years we were neighbors I can count the times I entered his apartment on one hand, and I count the times he entered mine on one finger. When we wanted to hang out I would call and see if he was free. I would even call to return a CD or video game I borrowed, even though I could be at his front door before the call went through. That's considered manners in Japan. Privacy is at a premium, so the privacy of one's personal space is respected and not invaded (unless it's your sibling, of course).

This comimg from the guy who has never been to Japan and who claims Japan is vastly superior to every other nation! LOL Truly laughable.

Bobby people who actually have lived in Japan for sometime are entitled to express their opinions on living there based on their experiences. People who make ridiculous claims about how good Japan is when they have never been there are not so entitled. Do you understand the difference?

I think you don't and never will....

honestly I'm getting a little tired of explaining that the sky is blue to someone who is flat out ignoring me and a dozen other people,
Bobby is persistently disturbing threads and aggravating members of this forum who typically don't get upset so easily.

Perfect comparison, I'd even go so far as to extend it by saying that in western culture, those very few people for which it is okay to walk into their house unnanounced, without knocking, are the same people who in Japan it's okay to show up without calling, but definitely knocking first. Like close family.
Does that make sense? lol


I think if I walked into a friends house in Japan without knocking. Loathing is close to a good description lol. A very strong dislike.
I might get excused on the basis of cultural differences, once.
Showing up without calling, not loathe, that's too far even in Japan.

Honestly a visitor to Japan would have to be SUPER KY to visit anyone unannounced, the cultural differences slap you in the face immediately.

Regarding Dogsbody's friend's situation, it's entirely different because she's not in Japan. She could be getting homesick, or just sick, a friend of hers could have died in Tohoku and she's overwhelmed by it, or she simply may not feel that a few weeks without contact is a big deal, it certainly isn't in Japan! Any number of possibilities.

I definitely agree about the "having people stop by" thing. At the VERY least, call at least an hour before if you`re going to just come to the door, and a day ahead if you expect to be let in.
Houses are private. Ultra-super private. I can count the number of times someone who doesn`t live here has come into my house on my fingers.

People tend to judge people on their homes, and expect to be judged on theirs. So it is very important to be ready for someone to visit. Someone suddenly stopping by and coming in is pretty awful as it gives you no chance to get ready. As most people do not keep their homes in an always-ready state, it is extremely rude to just show up out of the blue.

So... Meeting outside is much much easier. If someone does just show up at my door, they don`t expect to be let in, so I end up going out and talking to them outside the front door. It`s just how things are. Home is a private nest.

It's surprising how much that changes the dynamic of friendships.

Having to meet at a cafe or restaurant or some other place that invariable costs money or requires for you to be dressed in a way more presentable than you would in your own home, means that your friends see you that way nearly all the time, and not in your comfortable at-home way.

Hanging out has to be planned. With that small added formality, there's a limitation placed on how much you can open up, how quickly, how comfortably, and how often.

I can honestly say that in general the number and quality of friendships the average North American has are far more and far stronger than those of the average Japanese person.

@Nyororin,
Why do you think the home is such an ultra-private place for Japanese people compared to that of other cultures?
It seems to me like the homes of old in Japan were not so much like this as they are today, I'm saying this based on historical tv-shows I see in Japanese TV by the way. :)

She is wanting to live in England permanently. SHe has often come to us without prior notice. Anyway if this means the end of the what I thought was friendship-- I will have to accept that I guess. She was the one who chased after Us--she has cultivated quite a lot of English people. She is obsessed with renewing her visa. Still sees Japanese people in London every week etc.


I guess the time has arrived that she no longer needs us.

Thanks for your help and advice-- it helps me to understand better-- My trouble is that I am too fond of her and worry about her.

Incidentally-- My friend never has her phone switched on unless she is phoning someone herself. She told me that since working many years for TEPCO and having enormous responsibilities-- being the only woman with that particular HONOUR---------she was terrified whenever the phones rang. she has a phobia about phones. Uses email for most of her contacting.


Anyway I am grateful for insights so thanks for that. If she wishes to live here forever she needs to get used to English ways. Her landlady is very open and wants people to call.

If I could simply have phoned-- then no problem at all.

I grew up in an era without telephones, and people or family would just turn up.

This leads me to wonder how it is that you dress at home that you couldn`t go outside that way... :mtongue:

Meeting outside the home is easier for everyone involved when you consider the amount of effort and planning that is required for having someone in your home. When something is not up to par at home, it`s entirely your responsibility - when out, it isn`t.
In my case, other than when in my pajamas, I don`t really dress down to the point that I couldn`t go out... So I can`t comment on that part. If I`m in my pajamas, I wouldn`t want anyone other than close family around anyway.

Quality is in the eye of the beholder. You feel that the Japanese style of friendship is not as good as the style you are accustomed to... But would someone who grew up with the Japanese style agree? I`ve heard from Japanese people who have lived abroad that they constantly felt pressured, intruded upon, and that friendship meant less because everyone was an instant "close friend" (ie. didn`t go through proper steps of friendship).

It`s all about what you`re used to and how you perceive things.

What level of "historical" are we talking about? :)

In the distant past, privacy in itself was something for the upper classes. Privacy meant money. Even in large houses where people came and went regularly, people with money had private areas.

I think that to a point this has carried over to modern homes. There isn`t the space to have split house areas - "private" spaces and "public" spaces... And a totally public space would be really negative as privacy is linked to privilege.

So you have a private retreat, and outside spaces are for public meetings. Being invited into someone`s home (private space) carries a much greater meaning.

Hah! couldn't have said it better myself.

One last time dude :rolleyes: just for you..

I have met lots and lots of lovely Koreans and Japanese on my journey around the Globe. I even shared my deepest privacy with these lovely people and yes I am entitled to my own opinion about them from my own experience with them and the lovely people from South -East Asia.

Are they superior then we are? Hell Yea!!


How in the World can you not see this?? You must have never met one in your life..

And one more time just for you bobby.. you have met a very small representation of an entire country. You have never set foot in this country yet since you confessed your dark secrets to the two people that you met (if that even gives you any credit) and they didn't shun you (at least to your face) and you have concluded that they are superior in every way to the rest of the world, and that you know Japan just as well or better than any of us who have spent a good percentage of our lives living with them and are even married to them. Do you not see yet how ridiculous you look to everyone here? Do you even talk to these GREAT friends of yours that you met on a regular basis? Do you facebook with them.. anything with the slightest bit of meaning?

And if you after all these years still cannot see that these people are something special, then my friend you need help.

Just give it up.
There is no point in trying to convince him. He NEVER listens to anything anyone has said. Apparently, all Japanese are superior to HIM and some circle of people around him - "we", so... Let`s just take it at that. :mtongue:

If he wants to say that all Japanese are superior to him and those he knows personally... I say let him. What do we know of him and the non-Asians he knows? Maybe he is right because of the people he has to compare to. :p

Anyway though - let us end the education of Bobby and resume the topic at hand.

Did I ever say I do not think Japanese are special? Japan has always been able to carve itself a place in my heart, but unlike you, I have an experienced and balanced and REALISTIC view of Japan... but anyway.. Nyororin is right.. there is no more point to this so lets let everyone else get back to the topic at hand. You are going to think how you are going to think.. and sadly no amount authoritative experience is going to convince you otherwise.

Girl, just the incredible crime rate alone gives me right! Most of the crimes which happen in Japan are done by foreigners little girl.

You gotta need to step out of your little dream world and see the facts for ones.

But this is exactly why the Western society sucks.. because of people like you.

We used to have dinner parties at our house quite often. As we had renovated the house and had a great kitchen with commercial oven/cooktop it was a pleasure to have people over to enjoy some good food. Our Japanese friends were very impressed with when we roasted say a whole leg of lamb and sliced it at the table. I loved having people over mainly because I love cooking.
We had plenty of foreign friends who would just drop by if they were in the area and never had an issue with it. Neither of us are overly house proud. Even if having people over for a planned event we didn't ever worry about having the place spotless. If it was really dirty we'd just get a cleaner in as we both really hate housework.
We were well aware though of the issue Japanese people have with you just turning up and never really did it. We did have one family who we were very close to and we would occasionally if we were walking by their house (they lived close to us). They never appeared to have any problem with it but as I say we were really good friends.