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julyegudt 05-10-2011 01:32 AM

thanks for the practice.
 
thanks for the practice.

julyegudt 05-10-2011 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decimus (Post 835913)
Questions: 
1)
「として」 and 「とする」 seem to have various different meanings depending on context. Are there any tips to understand them quickly? I often have to reread a sentence with those 'conjugations' multiple times before I can make sense of what is being said.

I can sort of get that it's a combination of the particle 「と」 and the "to do" 「する」, with the 「して」 conjugation being used to indicate that it is an auxiliary verb with respect to what comes next, but I often see constructions like 「<名詞(noun)/形容動詞(adjectival verb)>として知られる」, which usually means "known as < 名詞(noun)>" or "known for being <adjective>". Eg: 「富豪として知られる」->"Known for being rich."

2)
Are 「兎に角(とにかく)」, 「沢山(たくさん)」, and 「流石(さすが)」 used only for phonetic reasons (ateji), or do they have some meaning behind them? I can sort of see how 兎に角 (Even if rabbits have horns.) could mean "No matter what happens", which is close enough in meaning with とにかく (Regardless). This could be a mere coincidence though.

3)
Does the use of kanji for words more commonly written in kana produce a "formal tone" and/or "archaic style"? I see kanji being sprinkled rather liberally in works with a fantasy setting. Examples include 「全く(まったく)」, 「此処(ここ」, 「何処(どこ)」, 「一寸(ちょっと 」), and 「何時迄(いつまで)」, in addition to ones stated in (2). If yes, is it due to the heavier use of kanji in formal documents and older Japanese texts in real-life?

"To love is to suffer. To avoid suffering, one must not love. But then, one suffers from not loving. Therefore, to love is to suffer."

masaegu 05-10-2011 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 865042)
#4 きむらさんでんわばんごうはなんですか。

I'm pretty sure that is what they teach outside of Japan because I've seen it said/written many times by Japanese-learners but native speakers DO NOT say it with なん. We use the word なんばん = 何番 instead. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 865042)
 
and also there's some weirdish stuff about phone numbers that I can't remember off the top of my head and Google is failing me. Some of the numbers are altered slightly I think.

You must elongate the vowels used in pronouncing 2 and 5 as にー and ごー respectively. This is to double the syllable lengths to match those used to pronounce the other numerals. Keeping a good rhythm is very important in verbalizing phone numbers and other numbers in which the numerals are pronounced separately.

In other words, this "rule" does not apply to verbalizing numbers like 35 as in "35 homeruns". It is read さんじゅうご. But a "35" in a phone number is always pronounced さんごー.

terranearth 05-10-2011 04:28 AM

I recently ate at a Japanese restaurant staffed with Japanese (or so I think) waiters, and they had a sign that said:

"あなたの愛を決定するできない”。I was wondering if this was actually correct Japanese, considering that it was stringing together する and 出来ない together. Thanks!

masaegu 05-10-2011 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terranearth (Post 865066)
I recently ate at a Japanese restaurant staffed with Japanese (or so I think) waiters, and they had a sign that said:

"あなたの愛を決定するできない”。I was wondering if this was actually correct Japanese, considering that it was stringing together する and 出来ない together. Thanks!

That is a horrible sentence.

Are you sure the restaurant is staffed with Japanese?

Vinnythefox 05-10-2011 01:14 PM

I was asked a question
"Was it easy to enter the bar?"
My friend told me I could answer with
"バーは入り安い。" or  ”バーは入り憎い"
but wouldn't I need to answer with
バーは入り安かった。
Or
バーは入り憎かった
because "was it easy"
is past tense
Or can "バーは入り安い。" or ”バーは入り憎い" be said in this case?

masaegu 05-10-2011 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnythefox (Post 865118)
I was asked a question
"Was it easy to enter the bar?"
My friend told me I could answer with
"バーは入り安い。" or  ”バーは入り憎い"
but wouldn't I need to answer with
バーは入り安かった。
Or
バーは入り憎かった
because "was it easy"
is past tense
Or can "バーは入り安い。" or ”バーは入り憎い" be said in this case?

Who is this friend you keep talking about? One sees wrong kanji all over.

安い = cheap
易い = easy (to do something)

憎い = to hold grudges against
にくい = hard (to do something)

When in doubt, use the kana or you could end up saying things you never meant to say.

In casual speech among close friends, you can answer the question in question in the present tense unless it was many months ago when you went to the bar.

Vinnythefox 05-10-2011 01:34 PM

Ah ok, It was a friend who sent me the questions, I now know why I was confused.

Thanks for the swift answer as always.

Darnellrbts 05-18-2011 04:44 PM

Hey guys Im practicing verb conjugation , で, and に particles here some sentences I made. I just want to make sure my grammar rights this is from lesson 3 in Genki.
1)うちでさかなたべます。
2)りーさんはきょぅがっこぅにいきます。
3)けにちはあしたにとしょかんにいきます。
4)りーさんはよくテニスをします。
5)わたしはたいていやさいをたべません。

Supperman 05-19-2011 01:12 AM

Hi.
I would suggest the following.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darnellrbts (Post 865290)

1)うちでさかなたべます。
2)りーさんはきょがっこにいきます。
3)けにちはあしたとしょかんにいきます。 (not あした
What is けにち? Is it a human name? ケニチ?
4)りーさんはよくテニスをします。 OK
5)わたしはたいていやさいをたべません。 OK


NinjaCrab 05-19-2011 04:59 AM

I have a question about particles in the two following sentences.

京都というレストランがどこにある (か/のを) 教えてくれませんか。

Are か and のを exchangeable in sentences like this one?

お客様に部屋を案内しました。

Is this sentence acceptable? The verb 案内する is somewhat confusing to me...

masaegu 05-19-2011 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaCrab (Post 865361)
I have a question about particles in the two following sentences.

京都というレストランがどこにある (か/のを) 教えてくれませんか。

Are か and のを exchangeable in sentences like this one?

お客様に部屋を案内しました。

Is this sentence acceptable? The verb 案内する is somewhat confusing to me...

The particle choices are か, のか and のかを for the first sentence. Note that のを is not a possible choice and also note that か will always be needed.  か is used twice here because you are, in effect, asking two separate questions.
1. Where is the restaurant named Kyoto?
2. Could you tell me?

The second sentence is correct only if you know what it means. It means "I showed the guest around the room." When a native speaker sees/hears this sentence, s/he will imagine that you are talking about an unusually huge room.

The verb 案内する is actually fairly difficult for the learner because it can take both persons and objects as a direct object.
1. You show someone around a place.
2. You show a place to someone or simply take someone to that place.

お客様に部屋を案内しました。 = the huge room story above
お客様を部屋に案内しました。 = "I showed my guest to the room"

masaegu 05-19-2011 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supperman (Post 865347)
What is けにち? Is it a human name? ケニチ?

I'm sure he meant to say けんいち.

NinjaCrab 05-19-2011 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 865368)
The particle choices are か, のか and のかを for the first sentence. Note that のを is not a possible choice and also note that か will always be needed.  か is used twice here because you are, in effect, asking two separate questions.
1. Where is the restaurant named Kyoto?
2. Could you tell me?

The second sentence is correct only if you know what it means. It means "I showed the guest around the room." When a native speaker sees/hears this sentence, s/he will imagine that you are talking about an unusually huge room.

The verb 案内する is actually fairly difficult for the learner because it can take both persons and objects as a direct object.
1. You show someone around a place.
2. You show a place to someone or simply take someone to that place.

お客様に部屋を案内しました。 = the huge room story above
お客様を部屋に案内しました。 = "I showed my guest to the room"

Thanks for the answer! I appreciate it.

Darnellrbts 05-19-2011 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supperman (Post 865347)
Hi.
I would suggest the following.

:) Thx for the help I see I messed up on little things, I copied the first sentence wrong I forgot to put the を when I transferred it over to my phone, I'm going to start double checking my work. masaegu was right lol I meant けんいち.

 I forgot to add this last sentence. I just wanted to see, if  I could say lee friend will come to the cafe today.
りーさんのともだちはきょうきっさてんにきます。

masaegu 05-19-2011 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darnellrbts (Post 865446)
 I forgot to add this last sentence. I just wanted to see, if  I could say lee friend will come to the cafe today.
りーさんのともだちはきょうきっさてんにきます。

That is perfect. To be anal, though, りー should be written as リー since it's a foreign name.

Darnellrbts 05-19-2011 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 865449)
That is perfect. To be anal, though, りー should be written as リー since it's a foreign name.

Thx for the quick reply. No problem, I'm glad u told me it helps me out in the long run.

Darnellrbts 05-19-2011 11:58 PM

 Hey it's me again my last question for the night I promise... I was wondering this sentence from Genki textbook has the the に particle after Saturday can If put lee in front of will it be correct still. I second guess my self to much :)

どようびにきっさてんにいきます。

リーさんはどようびにきっさてんにいきます。

StonerPenguin 05-20-2011 01:51 AM

Long time no see JF! No questions for now, I just wanted to bop by and say thanks to Supperman and Masaegu for the help. Also, masaegu, I saw your message to me on Lang-8 this morning. I'm so sorry for not responding sooner. I don't use Lang-8 much. And since JF has been down I haven't been on my computer here lately. Moreover, my younger siblings have decided they like my laptop better than their old computer so I can barely get on the dang thing! ;) Glad to see JF is back, I was gettin' worried :D

masaegu 05-20-2011 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darnellrbts (Post 865494)
 Hey it's me again my last question for the night I promise... I was wondering this sentence from Genki textbook has the the に particle after Saturday can If put lee in front of will it be correct still. I second guess my self to much :)

どようびにきっさてんにいきます。

リーさんはどようびにきっさてんにいきます。

Both are good sentences.

I think you are doing yourself a lot of good by trying to form different sentences. Adding, subtracting and switching words should help you feel more comfortable with the language as it lets you play with it.

masaegu 05-20-2011 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 865502)
Long time no see JF! No questions for now, I just wanted to bop by and say thanks to Supperman and Masaegu for the help. Also, masaegu, I saw your message to me on Lang-8 this morning. I'm so sorry for not responding sooner. I don't use Lang-8 much. And since JF has been down I haven't been on my computer here lately. Moreover, my younger siblings have decided they like my laptop better than their old computer so I can barely get on the dang thing! ;) Glad to see JF is back, I was gettin' worried :D

Thanks for dropping by to say howdy, StonerPenguin! Good to see you again. When JF was down, a couple of other Japanese members and I were wondering if our location had anything to do with our inability to access it. Looks like it didn't, did it? Anyway, whenever you have new questions, you know where to go. YuriTokoro will answer'em all for ya! :D

Right now I'm kinda busy fighting drooling romaji-users here:
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...ge-%28%3D.html

chinabean 05-20-2011 04:22 PM

whats the kanji symbol for "intense" ? as in "Intense Power"

Supperman 05-20-2011 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinabean (Post 865593)
whats the kanji symbol for "intense" ? as in "Intense Power"

It is 強 as in 強力.

chinabean 05-20-2011 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supperman (Post 865602)
It is 強 as in 強力.

thanks! what is the difference between that and this? 強烈なパワー

chinabean 05-20-2011 05:43 PM


and this?

Realism 05-20-2011 06:12 PM

It means something like ferocious, aggressive power....very similar meaning.

KyleGoetz 05-20-2011 07:53 PM

Is anyone familiar with a kanji that looks like 胖 except that the right half is 半 instead? I'm trying to help a friend whose mother had a Chinese name created for her years and years ago when they lived in China. If I could just TYPE the kanji, I could check online Chinese dictionaries myself. I'm hoping a Japanese person (or one of the Chinese speaking people here) is aware of this kanji (unless it's Chinese only—then let's call it a hanzi).

I can't find it in my dictionaries with 半 but only with the similar-looking right half.

Thanks! To me it looks like 月+半 rather than using にくづき.

Even if you don't know it, can you type it for me? I can't find it online, I don't know the reading, and I can't get it to appear with the handwriting input.

Supperman 05-20-2011 11:24 PM

こんにちは。取り急ぎ、ご要望の活字を送ります。


masaegu 05-21-2011 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supperman (Post 865630)
こんにちは。取り急ぎ、ご要望の活字を送ります。


Did you read the question?

masaegu 05-21-2011 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 865616)
Is anyone familiar with a kanji that looks like 胖 except that the right half is 半 instead? I'm trying to help a friend whose mother had a Chinese name created for her years and years ago when they lived in China. If I could just TYPE the kanji, I could check online Chinese dictionaries myself. I'm hoping a Japanese person (or one of the Chinese speaking people here) is aware of this kanji (unless it's Chinese only—then let's call it a hanzi).

I can't find it in my dictionaries with 半 but only with the similar-looking right half.

Thanks! To me it looks like 月+半 rather than using にくづき.

Even if you don't know it, can you type it for me? I can't find it online, I don't know the reading, and I can't get it to appear with the handwriting input.

I do not think the kanji/hanzi you described exists in Japanese, at least not currently.

What are you looking at for your description? A handwritten hanzi or an oral explanation of the components? Also, do you have the pinyin?

Supperman 05-21-2011 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 865651)
Did you read the question?

Oh, thank you, masaegu, for you suggestion.
I have to say, "no, I didn't."
I misread it.
I did handwriting-input-search, and sent it to him without caution.

Sorry, KyleGoetz, for my redundant posts.

jesselt 05-21-2011 07:52 AM

It doesn't appear in my Chinese dictionary either...

KyleGoetz 05-21-2011 01:14 PM

Here is what I'm working with. . Given the person's real name, what supperman suggested might be correct even though the てんてん is flipped upside down in mine. But then again, my idea is the right half would help with pronunciation, so "pan" would be my guess of pinyin for the middle kanji in this image (given that the right half is ハン in Japanese, "pan" in pinyin doesn't seem too far off).

The first is ke1 and last is xi1, and the person has "Poncé" in the name, so I'm thinking if the middle is "pan" of some sort, then "panxi1" sounds like "Poncé." The last name begins with a "kr" sound, so ke1 seems typical to me for how the name might be rendered into Chinese. My own "Goetz" was rendered by Taiwanese elders I knew growing up as "ge3." In Chinese class at university, it was "ge3" still.

But this story veers way off topic. Here's the image I'm working with. I believe the back story is her mother, when they lived in China years and years ago, had a Chinese friend there render the name for my friend for government documents and such. My friend just doesn't actually know anything about it other than this is something like her name in Chinese. Neither of these people are the type to get some dumb uneducated person to do this, and the family may have even paid good money to have this done years ago.

In any case, I'll go brave a Chinese forum to see if I can get help before this Japanese Help thread becomes a Chinese Help thread ;)

I'll probably delete some of the more personal details about my friend and her family in a couple days (the friend is from a famous family), so do me a favor and any response to this post please don't include things I've said about the family.

Thank you.

Edit Sorry about the size of the image. Would you believe it is very, very tiny on the document I scanned?

masaegu 05-21-2011 03:09 PM

After some research, I am leaning towards the idea that the two kanji would be identical. The one using 半 appears to be the newer form of the other. If this were important, however, which it seems to be, I would consult an educated Chinese native speaker.

Darnellrbts 05-21-2011 04:02 PM

:ywave: Hey guys im still on Genki leson 3 im learning ませんか。I just want to make sure im not messing up grammer wise so i have a couple sentences.

1)けんいちさんはあしたとしょかんにいきませんか。
2)けんいちさんはきょうテニスをしませんか。

masaegu 05-21-2011 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darnellrbts (Post 865699)
:ywave: Hey guys im still on Genki leson 3 im learning ませんか。I just want to make sure im not messing up grammer wise so i have a couple sentences.

1)けんいちさんはあしたとしょかんにいきませんか。
2)けんいちさんはきょうテニスをしませんか。

No problem grammar-wise.

Questions are:
Do you know what the sentences mean?
Who is the addressee in each sentence?

Thing is each sentence can mean two completely different things. Which form of ませんか are you learning in this lesson?

Sentence #1 can mean:
1. Isn't Ken'ichi going to the library tomorrow? AND
2. Aren't you going to the library tomorrow, Ken'ichi?

Darnellrbts 05-21-2011 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 865703)
No problem grammar-wise.

Questions are:
Do you know what the sentences mean?
Who is the addressee in each sentence?

Thing is each sentence can mean two completely different things. Which form of ませんか are you learning in this lesson?

Sentence #1 can mean:
1. Isn't Ken'ichi going to the library tomorrow? AND
2. Aren't you going to the library tomorrow, Ken'ichi?


The lesson im learning is how to extend an invitation, using the present tense negatvive verb, and question particle. i was trying to say would Ken'ichi are you going to the libary tomorrow. and Ken'ichi would you like to play tennis today.

masaegu 05-21-2011 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darnellrbts (Post 865704)
The lesson im learning is how to extend an invitation, using the present tense negatvive verb, and question particle. i was trying to say would Ken'ichi are you going to the libary tomorrow. and Ken'ichi would you like to play tennis today.

Gotcha. So Ken'ichi is the addressee.

Darnellrbts 05-21-2011 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 865706)
Gotcha. So Ken'ichi is the addressee.

yep so i was doing it right?? I aslo want to say thx for helping me with the question i ask :D .

masaegu 05-21-2011 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darnellrbts (Post 865707)
yep so i was doing it right?? I aslo want to say thx for helping me with the question i ask :D .

Yeah, no problem. And don't mention it: I liked it in NC when I went there (before you were born). Missing the drawl, pecan pie, iced tea, really just about everything from the South lately.


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