[quote=Tenchu;739366]

Anyway, I think this is a pretty retard thread. Being attracted to "Japanese" girls, or "Chinese" or whatever, that seems pretty childish. In reality, you're a complete moron if you're not judging each potential date as an individual, rather than saying "She's Japanese, she'll do..."

QUOTE]

i think its more of a preference. than 'she'll do'. like some people prefer to date blondes or boys taller than them. some people prefer to date asians. i personally do too. but that doesnt mean if i liked someone of another race i wouldnt date them or that i go out looking for asians in particular.

Wow, you consider race to be the same as a hair color change. It's much more than that.

It might also be that idea of taboo, that some things are forbidden fruit as it were. Afterall, whats the first thing a child does when you tell them they can't have the candy sitting in the jar?

Cultures are the same way, it's how you get crazies like the KKK complaining about "keeping the race pure". Course, the moment something becomes forbidden, it attracts. So that prolly has something to do with it as well.

While culturally speaking some of these are a result of the taboo factor, I still think much of it is natures atempt to create stronger bloodlines through hibreds.

The irony is that those who advocate keeping the so called "races" Pure are in fact advocateing keeping thier own race weak. I'm from Iowa, where we have alot of corn...all of it super hibred versions. Heck, the orginal "purebred" line of corn you would hardly recognize as corn. It certainly isn't going to produce 200 bushles an acre or be insect resistant.

Well.. it just sort of seems like its sexually objectifying Asian women to say like "Asian women are so hot".
I grew up in almost all women family and several of my friends happen to be Asian women so the feminist influence kinda grew on me.
Plus I've heard women who are Asian say they're put off by guys who say that.

If you put things in perspective it would make me a bit uncomfortable if someones like "Ooooh white guys (at least I'm guessing thats most of my heritage) are sooo hot"

Why do many people seem to think so much about ethnicity?
I mean whether you're black, white, Arab etc we're all just people.

Asian girls being disconcerted about appearing "hot" to some one might be due to cultural ideals about not attracting attention to ones self. Least ways that might be part of it.

I'm also sure no one wants to be considered an "object" I most assuredly agree with you there. However, most people like to think they are attractive to others.

So wether someone dislikes how a person reacts to them prolly depends a good deal on what type of reaction it is and how it's presented. No girl would apreciate catcalls but I'm sure many would value a kind word or two. Such as You dress likes nice on you or I like what you did with your hair and that sort of thing.

I realize it's small talk to some dagree, but woman/girls go through alot of trouble to present themselves in a way they feel confident in, and haveing someone notice the effort they make, is appreciated.

My attraction to Asian women goes back to when I was young and my Uncle married a Japanese lady. She is very feminine and kind but her looks are average. While I find pretty women from all races, I feel Asian women treat me how I want to be treated. After being married to an American woman, I will never have anything to do with one again no matter what race she is. I feel that "Equal rights" has put man-woman relationships out of balance. American women want to be so equal that they over do it and try to be in charge. A relationship is 50-50. My Japanese wife is submissive by nature, but I am making her understand that she is equal in her opinions and I take what she thinks into consideration. She loves this because no Japanese men treated her like this. I don't own her so she (and I) is happy to cooperate with me.
I know I'll get flak for this (especially from American women) but this is how I feel.

I think I remember you talking about your wife before, and I said then that it's great to have a loving relationship - and I still believe that. It may sound corny, but love is a beautiful thing. But I AM curious. Why do you like her to be submissive to you?

I'm not going to lie, I'm pretty annoyed when you said what I've put in bold. Women's rights are not only getting women out of the kitchen, but stopping brutal attacks against women. Physical and verbal domestic abuse, rape, molestation - a lot of it stems from the idea that women are submissive, and the attackers want to feel stronger by attacking someone who is submissive.

Sorry if this seems inappropriate, but it's something I study in school, so I want to bring it up: a lot of modern day porn is a perfect example. Most of it is extremely derogatory towards women, making men powerful while women are turned into holes to attack - literally. Porn generally reflects the sexual ideals of a society - porn is what people fantasize about, right? That suggests that, in today's society, a lot of people just view women as holes - and bitches, whores, etc.

Then there's also economic oppression, with women who struggle financially because many still DO believe that women belong in the kitchen, not in the workplace.

I do agree with you about the 50-50 dynamic, though. If I ever marry a man, I would expect him to do chores - and I would help him, too. I would have a job, and I would expect him to have one too. If we had children, I would expect him to stay home certain days while I'm at work and I would stay home other days while he's out. It definitely needs to be a balance. But this brings me back to my question to you - if you believe this, then why do you still like having a woman submit to you?

That's true. I'm one of them.

now, don't get me wrong. I don't rule anyone out. The last person I was with is Hispanic. But it's Asians who really draw my interest.

not me.

If you read what I wrote I said she is submissive by nature and I didn't say I wanted her to submit to me. Most Asian women are raised this way. I don't agree with that but that is just the way it is. If anything I am teaching her not to be submissive. By her being submissive she is happy when I show her I value her as my equal. She is also happy that I don't treat her like my piece of property. I am happy that we are able to compromise (I don't always get my way and that is fine by me). We do have a loving relationship because I am showing her that her upbringing isn't how life has to be and that I respect and love her enough to let her help me with our decisions in life.
As far as what I wrote that got you mad, I say who cares? I don't expect you to understand because: A. You are not a man dating American women, and B. You are not an American Woman. I have dated many women from all over and just don't like how American women act any more (my sister included). You can't have a 50-50 relationship if one is trying too hard to be equal. Granted women have been treated badly by alot of macho men, but there needs to be a happy medium where both partners treat each other with respect and realize they can't have their way always. By overcompensating alot of women have become downright bossy. This is not a good relationship. Marriage has become a gamble at best since the feminest movement started. Just look up when the divorce rate shot up. 1960's (start of the feminist movement) to the present and it's getting worse.My parents have a great relationship because neither trys to run the marriage.
Where does rape, porno, or anything else come into this? Porno is done by two slezy people accepting money to do those things(if anyone believes that the pizza deliveryman gets sex every time he delivers a pizza, they need serious help it's all a stupid fantasy written by a slezy person a man or woman). Rape is just violence that should be punished by death.These have nothing to do with a relationship.
I apoligize for nothing since I know I am not doing anything to be ashamed of. My opinion is based on years (yes, I am older than most here) of observation and experience.

I just got done reading through the thread and to be honest, I find it hard to believe that anyone can actually limit themselves to a certain race. Sure there can be a slightly heightened interest in one race over the other but to completely disregard all other races seems a bit far fetched.

I’m pretty certain that there isn’t a human alive that can’t find, at least, a single attractive person from any/all races.

Tossing aside an entire group of people because of your “unfortunate” experiences with one or two people from that group seems like too much of an exaggeration.

Anyways, I don’t know what kind of cloud some of you are living under but I ask you to come down here with the rest of us and experience reality. The women/men you might hate in a particular group will, undoubtedly, exist in that other group you hold so sacred. Why? Well, because it really isn’t about a group but rather the individual … and believe you me, individuals come with all their quirky mannerisms no matter which part of the world they may hail from.

I'm not asking you to apologize. I guess you assuming that I am means you're being slightly defensive, which suggests that you feel guilty about something. I don't have anything to do with that, though.

Again, it's great that you have a loving relationship. But both this time and last time, you said that you like that she submits to you. I can't remember the exact words, but last time I think you said that you like that she strokes your male ego or something like that. I'm just asking why you like this.

And um - well, I'm not sure if this really has anything to do with this thread, or if it matters at all, but I AM American. I'm also a gay, and have dated women before. The same gender roles seen with men and women are found with lesbians and gay men. Someone is expected to submit. Again, I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the point, but since you brought it up I thought I should clarify.

About divorce and the feminist movement: are you suggesting that women should have remained in an oppressed state for the sanctity of marriage? Oh my.

I already explained why porn and rape have to do with this post. It's violence against women. Women's rights are not all about, "It's YOUR turn to do the dishes, honey!" as you had suggested before. I was merely trying to straighten that out for you.

At least in Japan I have observed that men tend to live with their parents until they marry, so women are sometimes raised to basically take the reigns from the mother to be the next woman to take care of her man.

This is a generalization, but I see that the older generation of men, at least, are not very good at taking care of themselves. This may be partially due to a lifetime of handholding, from mother to wife. Men are lucky their wived tend to outlive them. I knew of a older Japanese guy whose wife sadly died. He didn't know how to cook, and ate instant ramen one or two meals a day. He died of malnutrition a year later.

I think the image of Japanese women as "submissive" is a bit of a misunderstanding in the west. (Again, generalizations) but Japanese women tend to "take care" of their men, but they certainly like to be taken care of, as well. I think relationships in Japan are 50-50 in a way as well, but What BELly is describing is in America men and women doing EVERYTHING 50-50. Today I'll wash the dishes and you dry, and tomorrow you wash the dishes and I'll dry. This kind of thing is pretty rare in Japan, the 50-50 is more global in perspective. You make the money and I'll take care of the house, keep you fed. Japanese women allow men to look like the boss on the surface, but behind closed doors everyone knows that women run the household. It isn't uncommon for men to give their wives their paychecks and the wife to give the husband an allowance (again, my experience is in the older generation, so I don't know about newlyweds today).

Maybe it is because I lived in Kansai, but "submissive" is one of the last words I would use to describe the women I knew. Sometimes quiet, sometimes demure, but rarely submissive.

I am not sure that pornography is reflective of the fantasies of all of America, but rather reflective of the people that consume pornography, which I don't think is a majority of the population. Just as the I don't think the wild and weird pornography of Japan is reflection on the entire country. Maybe the reason women in some pornography are submissive is to fulfill a fantasy that does not exist in reality.

Okay, then I'm curious: why are you so attracted to Asians?

You told me using "gay" as a noun was "condescending" and I should say "gay people". I just want to make sure that is still true or not.

It is still true. I'd meant to say, "I am a gay woman," but apparently forgot to type that out. So sorry.

Thank you for clearing that up. It is appreciated.

People are people, but I think you can find attractiveness in certain races. Be attracted to a certain look. But I will agree when it comes down to it, it is more about the personality of the person. That comes above all else. But as far as physical attraction I dont really see anything wrong with saying on average you find yourself more attracted to certain looks.

To me being attracted to one particular race is exoticizing that race. Saying that one race is more attractive, to me, sort of says that a person is attracted to the processed ideas of what that race signifies.

For example, there are some people that believe West Indians are "exotic." Those same people tend to believe that, in the West Indies, we don't have cars, that we run around in grass skirts, and that we live in huts. Those people are more attracted to the idea of being "less civilized" than us as people. I may be assuming, but when I hear someone say that they're attracted to the Japanese race, I immediately imagine them being attracted to Japanese kimonos or the men and women in jrock bands with spiky hair. It's modern-day the idea of being attracted to "the orient." It's also stereotyping.

No I never said anything about stereotyping because of physical appearance. If you stereotype because of physical appearance than yes there is a problem with that. All I am talking about is physical attractiveness. You cant tell me there aren't things that you are attracted to. Physical attractiveness in my mind doesn't have anything to do with creating a stereotype of this person. Although for some people this is true but not for all.

I'm saying that it's stereotyping because of the process of physical attraction to one race.

First, someone is attracted to a man or woman's race. If that person were to think about why they're attracted to a man or woman's race, then they'd come to find that there's a reason. I personally don't think there's ever a "just because." Someone might like a man with bigger muscles because big muscles symbolize masculinity to them, and that person likes masculinity. Another might like a man with smaller muscles, because they feel like men with smaller muscles don't conform to society's expectations. There's always a reason.

I gave the example earlier of liking jrock. From there, if that person were to say, "I like the entire Japanese race because of jrock," then they would be stereotyping because it suggests that they're attaching one idea to an entire race of people. Not all Japanese people are in a jrock band.

That really is not at all what I'm saying. Like I said your example of Jrock would have to do with stereotyping. If I said I like Asian women because they are more polite than other women than yes your jrock analogy would be correct. But that's not what I said at all. You can definitely separate physical characteristics from stereotyping. By what your saying then, do you not believe in physical attractiveness. Is there nothing you find attractive or unattractive?

I don't think that people that say "I am attracted to Asian women" or "I am attracted to Japanese women" are usually exclusively interested in the Asian or Japanese race itself as if it were true that would mean they found all women of a certain race attractive, and I have never seen that to be that case.

I think the reality is that people that say these things find certain aspects of a race or culture attractive, and that is what they are talking about. In some cases it is the image of submission, like we talked about earlier. In some cases it is the smaller size that Japanese and Asian women tend to be, some like the smooth skin Asian women often had, for some it's the long straight hair, the respect and subtleties of the culture...any number or combination of things. Sometimes people can't put a finger on it.

I know many guys that had or have "bamboo fever" but each of them in their own way. One guy said he loved Japanese women, but only dated Japanese women who were tall. Another said the same, but only dated girls with long straight black hair. Another liked trying to tame party girl hostesses. Shallow? Maybe, but they were all in their young 20s, living in Japan, and weren't necessarily looking to settle down quite yet. So maybe a little shallow, but I can't call it racism.

Right, I agree in what your saying. I just think people have personal preferences. It is unfair to say "Asian women", because that would imply that you find every Asian women attractive. But I do think that there are certain things you many find attractive in a certain race, based purely on physical appearance. I usually don't find someone at fault who says they are attracted to Asians, probably becuase I understand what they are saying. But it is a very broad statement and would basically mean that you like every Asian women. Which probably isn't true. But what I think this statement stems from is the fact that, while everyone has there own unique look. Every race and culture has physical characteristics that are unique to that race or culture. This is starting to disappear due to the globalization of the world, but it still stands true. And when I usually hear someone say they have "bamboo fever" (that one is new to me) I usually take it as they find something particularly attractive about Asian women.

And you are correct I dont think you can call it being racist.

And I also think that it can be based purely on looks why your prefer a certain look. I dont think it always has to be because it brings up thoughts on how this person acts. When someone says they like a certain race I dont assume its becuase they like a certain characteristic of this culture. Although I have heard people say they like asian women because they are said to be more submissive. I have also heard people say they just like they way they look. I dont think there always has to be a reason why your attracted to someone....at least I never though that much why I like someones physical appearance. I dont usually look at someone and say "hey they are Asian, I am attracted to them becuase i have been told they are nicer that other women". I usually say "hey they are cute becuase well... they are cute".

Of course everyone has preferences and things they like or find attractive. Sometimes they can be general (blonde hair) and sometimes they are very specific (tennis skirts). It seems like lots of times people don't know why they like the things they do, they just do. It is possible that it is biology or learned behavior, but I agree that it is hard to call it racism.

Yes, you like what you like. And I am more inclined to say it is biology over other things that have been posted here. Who knows exactly why you like what you like, of course im speaking purely on physical attractiveness. You just do.

Of course there are things I find attractive and unattractive. What I'm arguing is that there's a reason for what I find attractive. For example, I like women who aren't curvy and wear men's clothes. When I delve into WHY I like such women, it's because I like people who don't conform to society's expectations.

What I'm saying is that people who like one race over another will inevitably stereotype that race. Can you think of an example for why a person might be attracted to another race without stereotyping that race?

These are my sentiments exactly.


Though, mercedesjin, I find it interesting that you didn't have anything to comment on.

Thats what I am trying to say though. There doesn't always have to be some underlying reason. People can just like what they like, for no apparent reason. I have never heard someone say there has to be an underlying reason why you think someone is attractive, beyond the simple fact you think they are attractive. Like we have been saying you cant always put your finger on it. And I can think of situations where people are really good friends, they have lots in common, but they aren't attracted to this person. They know this person for real, know how they really are and act. But they can still be unattractive to this person based on physical appearance. These situations have nothing to do with stereotyping based on looks. And this is just an example this can widely be used. And along the lines of people saying they like a certain race based on looks, I have also heard people say they aren't particularly fond of the way a race looks or say in general they aren't attracted to, lets say Asians. They don't always know the race to base a stereotype off of. They don't know any, they just aren't attracted to this person.

again it is unfair to say asians as a whole because it does imply you like every single one. Im just using it becuase it is a common way of saying it.

And I still stand by this in saying, that just becuase you don't find someone attractive it cannot be labeled as racism.

I think there's a fine line between 'stereotyping' and human nature.

It IS human nature to stereotype. Humans like to stereotype because it's easier to understand different groups of people or things that way. We don't like what we don't understand, so many of us will stereotype until told that it's wrong.

EDIT: Also, you commented earlier that "it's interesting" that I haven't responded to any of MMM's comments, or something like that. I've made a personal decision not to respond to MMM while in the middle of any of these types of discussions, because I happen to think that MMM is rude. If you'd like for me to respond to anything in particular, feel free to reiterate a point in your own words, and I'd gladly continue a discussion with you.

There is always a reason. Physical attraction is a psychological thing. Even if it's as simple as "society conditioned me to think that blonde hair and blue eyes are beautiful," there will ALWAYS be a reason. Then, you can start to think and analyze WHY society would want someone to think that blonde hair and blue eyes are beautiful. You don't hear about it often because people don't usually think about these things, and don't LIKE to think about these things because they delve deeper into the subconscious. Why do you think no one has answered my question, "Why do you like Asians?" No one will answer because they don't want to think about it.

It's the same with finding certain people unattractive. I can think of an example of this right now. I have a friend that thinks ALL white men are ugly. She would NEVER be attracted to a white man. When asked why, she said that she believes white men aren't good at sex. It's a stereotype.

I can think of a reason why some people aren't attracted to Asians, based on what I've heard people say. People have said that Asian men have small - well, you know - and because of that, they wouldn't want to have sex with Asian men. I've heard people say that Asian women don't have big enough breasts, and so they aren't attracted to Asian women. These are stereotypes also. But, hey, let's think about it even further: why would these people want bigger penises and bigger breasts? I think one reason is because society has taught us that men are more masculine if they have bigger penises, and women are more feminine if they have bigger breasts. Perhaps those people are looking for masculine men and feminine women.

I'm not going to get into the argument of whether saying one race is ugly is racist or not.

It's not wrong to stereotype (in the general sense) -- because it IS human nature after all.

You should know this more than anyone, considering you're a lesbian. People stereotype gay people all the time, but gayness, as well as racial-attraction, are simply primitive, subconscious, psychological tools.


Personally I think MMM is being rather cordial, all things considered. Just because he nullified your argument doesn't mean he was being "rude"

Racism is also human nature. To oppress others is also human nature. Stereotyping stems from both. When used negatively, such as in this instance, stereotyping is wrong. And honestly, I can't think of an instance when it's a positive thing to stereotype one person.

I'm not a lesbian, I'm bisexual - but I guess that doesn't matter. I'm interested - can you elaborate on what you mean when you say "simply primitive, subconscious, psychological tools"?

I have no idea if MMM is being cordial or not right now. Because of a previous incident (which is where I got the opinion that he can be pretty rude at times), I'd decided that I wouldn't read anymore of his posts when I'm in the middle of a discussion like this one. It's just to prevent an argument.

I answered it. It is your choice not to respond to my comments, but don't say I didn't address it.

I don't think racism is human nature. If that were so interracial adoptions would never work because the baby would have racist feelings against her parents and vice versa. Racism is something that is taught.

I think stereotyping is in human nature as it simplifies complicated problems, and this has been passed along through evolution. I am antelope and I see a cheetah eat my mother. The next time I see a cheetah, I am going to run. That's not racism, that's survival. I think this does apply to the human world, and can have positive, neutral and negative results.

Okay, I have a quick question for you - sorry, it doesn't actually have anything to do with the thread topic, but I hope you don't mind: WHY in the world are you still trying to talk to me? I've made it obvious that I don't want anything to do with you, yet it seems like you really are literally following me around this forum.

I want anyone but you, MMM, to answer my question - anyone but you because, as I've said before, I don't want to talk to you. I'll politely ask that you stop addressing me in discussions. As I'm ignoring you, please ignore me.

I agree, it is taught. How else would someone use something as insignificant as skin color to judge anyone?
Oh, and I think you have used an amazing amount of restraint on your comments with mercedesjin. If you aren't with her, you are against her.

I am not following you around, mercedesjin (that's the second time you have accused me of that), I am participating in the discussion.

I am not interested in games, so if you want to play silent treatment, that is your choice. I am going to continue to participate in the discussion. I do not know what I did to make you so angry besides disagree with the equal passion you disagreed with me. I apologize to the rest of the board that this silly squabble has gone on for so long.

I'd answer you but your question isn't to me. Quit posting things about his posts ad I'm sure he'll quit posting to clarify his position.

Thank you, bELyVIS. I think when we talk about human nature vs. learned behavior the easiest measuring stick is looking at babies and the very young. Do babies react in fear, hatred or horror when someone of another race gives them a bottle? Not in my experience. If so, every non-white nanny or au pair who works for a white family would be out of a job.