Originally Posted by bELyVIS (Post 740333)

I agree, it is taught. How else would someone use something as insignificant as skin color to judge anyone?
Oh, and I think you have used an amazing amount of restraint on your comments with mercedesjin. If you aren't with her, you are against her.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 740301)

There is always a reason. Physical attraction is a psychological thing. Even if it's as simple as "society conditioned me to think that blonde hair and blue eyes are beautiful," there will ALWAYS be a reason. Then, you can start to think and analyze WHY society would want someone to think that blonde hair and blue eyes are beautiful. You don't hear about it often because people don't usually think about these things, and don't LIKE to think about these things because they delve deeper into the subconscious. Why do you think no one has answered my question, "Why do you like Asians?" No one will answer because they don't want to think about it.

It's the same with finding certain people unattractive. I can think of an example of this right now. I have a friend that thinks ALL white men are ugly. She would NEVER be attracted to a white man. When asked why, she said that she believes white men aren't good at sex. It's a stereotype.

I can think of a reason why some people aren't attracted to Asians, based on what I've heard people say. People have said that Asian men have small - well, you know - and because of that, they wouldn't want to have sex with Asian men. I've heard people say that Asian women don't have big enough breasts, and so they aren't attracted to Asian women. These are stereotypes also. But, hey, let's think about it even further: why would these people want bigger penises and bigger breasts? I think one reason is because society has taught us that men are more masculine if they have bigger penises, and women are more feminine if they have bigger breasts. Perhaps those people are looking for masculine men and feminine women.

I'm not going to get into the argument of whether saying one race is ugly is racist or not.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 740340)

Racism is taught, but the need to oppress others isn't. I feel that oppressing others is a human quality - almost primitive - because of human's basic desire of survival. Oppressing others, in a way, ensures one's survival for as one pushes another down, the oppressor will be guaranteed safety and survival - economically, class-wise, etc. The need to oppress others can be observed even in children from a young age. Elementary school bullies, for example.

Racism is just a tool of oppression, and in THAT way racism is human nature. Racism is taught for the purpose of oppression, which is human nature.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS (Post 740338)

I'd answer you but your question isn't to me. Quit posting things about his posts ad I'm sure he'll quit posting to clarify his position.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 740345)

So I'm actually a little confused by what you've said.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 740345)

Er? What have I posted that's been about him? What have I done to lure him to me, to follow me, to annoy me? From the beginning of this thread, I'm pretty sure that I was speaking to other people. (Because believe me, he knows that I don't like him. I told him so. It's common sense that, in order to prevent an argument, you SHOULD NOT talk to the person that doesn't like you.)

I ignored him outright until someone... burkheartdesu or something?... made a comment about me ignoring him, and THAT is when I acknowledged MMM's posts on this thread. THAT is when I acknowledged that I don't like him. NOW, when you've addressed me on the issue, is when I've acknowledged him. Other than that, I'm pretty sure that he's had no need to "clarify his position" based on anything I've said to him - because I HAVEN'T said anything to him. So I'm actually a little confused by what you've said.

Originally Posted by burkhartdesu (Post 740349)

Ok I'm sorry to go off topic, mercedesjin, but on several threads you pull the whole ".... or something" bit.

That's terribly pretentious.

Originally Posted by burkhartdesu (Post 740354)

... :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Barone1551 (Post 740341)

So your basically saying that any and all attraction is based on stereotyping. You cant find someone attractive based on looks alone, it all has to do with how you think this person is?

and on two side notes: there was a time in another thread when you brought up the fact that the color of you skin or skin tone has nothing to do with you as a person. This is very true, it doesnt. You went on this whole speech of saying "does the color of my skin make make me any less of a mother" and so on and so forth. Once again no it does not. But in this same thread you called a women ugly, now by your standards, What made that women any less of a mother or a person. Nothing. You are a pretty big hypocrite.

And on the other side not: since you did say in another thread that you thought it was racist to not be attracted to a certain skin tone, I want to ask you this:

Would you label people who are not attraced to the same sex or are not bisexual as sexist? So if I were to say I am not attracted to the same sex as me, would you then label me as sexist? This seems to follow your same pattern of thinking.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 740072)

I'm not asking you to apologize. I guess you assuming that I am means you're being slightly defensive, which suggests that you feel guilty about something. I don't have anything to do with that, though.

Again, it's great that you have a loving relationship. But both this time and last time, you said that you like that she submits to you. I can't remember the exact words, but last time I think you said that you like that she strokes your male ego or something like that. I'm just asking why you like this.

And um - well, I'm not sure if this really has anything to do with this thread, or if it matters at all, but I AM American. I'm also a gay, and have dated women before. The same gender roles seen with men and women are found with lesbians and gay men. Someone is expected to submit. Again, I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the point, but since you brought it up I thought I should clarify.

About divorce and the feminist movement: are you suggesting that women should have remained in an oppressed state for the sanctity of marriage? Oh my.

I already explained why porn and rape have to do with this post. It's violence against women. Women's rights are not all about, "It's YOUR turn to do the dishes, honey!" as you had suggested before. I was merely trying to straighten that out for you.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS (Post 740364)

1. I like it that she is submissive because she is at a level I can work with to bring her up to a 50-50 partner. If she was trying to be more equal (which is what most women I know do) then it would be next to impossible to get her down to a 50-50 level. (You are showing this on these posts). Yes, I enjoy it sometimes that she strokes my male ego, all men do. Anyone that says no to this is lying. She also knows she can use this to her advantage if needed (she's a smart woman).
2. You are a American citizen. The US Territories are far different from the mainland in thinking and culture. Look at Puerto Rico for example.
3. Here you claim you are gay, yet in another post you claim you are bisexual. There is a big difference. Make up your mind. You are trying to present your arguments from 2 completely different viewpoints.
4.I am not saying that women should be oppressed. Just by their attempting to be equal, they have overshot this goal and think that they can only be equal is by castrating men. Men have to question their role in marriage now and that is why marriages are failing. My father doesn't oppress my mom, but his role is traditionally defined and he feels like he runs the family. In truth, my mother has feminine ways to manipulate him if need be without taking his manhood away.
Does this answer your questions?

Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 740375)

1. You suggested earlier that women now have too much power in relationships, throwing true relationships out of whack. Do you feel that, if a man were fighting for a 50-50 relationship, the relationship would fall apart? Do you think, then, that a man should submit to the woman so that the
3. Today, vocabulary like gay, lesbian, queer, and bisexual are interchangeable because more and more people are starting to realize that sexuality is fluid. One day, I might only be attracted to women. The next, I might only be attracted to men. I'm sorry if I confused you.

Originally Posted by Miyavifan (Post 740383)

This it ot, but they're not interchangeable, because they all mean different things.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 740385)

Today - while having discourses about sexuality - people tend to understand that a woman can be gay and still be attracted to men. In that sense, they do mean the same thing and are interchangeable. The idea isn't completely mainstream, though, so you're right - I should've been clearer.

Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 740375)

Thanks for answering them. But, they just bring up more questions for me. I'll use numbers too, just because it's easier that way.

1. You suggested earlier that women now have too much power in relationships, throwing true relationships out of whack. Do you feel that, if a man were fighting for a 50-50 relationship, the relationship would fall apart? Do you think, then, that a man should submit to the woman so that the relationship can then and only then achieve true equality?

2. Yes, I am an American citizen. (Though I'm a second-class American citizen. I don't have the same rights as those born on the mainland. Even the idea of being US "territory" makes me second-class.) I'm also West Indian. West Indian is my ethnicity. Believe it or not, though, I understand a LOT about American culture. America has influenced the USVI greatly. I've also spent the last two years living in New York.

3. Today, vocabulary like gay, lesbian, queer, and bisexual are interchangeable because more and more people are starting to realize that sexuality is fluid. One day, I might only be attracted to women. The next, I might only be attracted to men. I'm sorry if I confused you.

4. What do you believe is the man's role in marriage? Also, what happens if two men get married, or if two women get married? What will their roles be then?

Originally Posted by bELyVIS (Post 740448)

1. Yes it would fall apart.
If women were traditionally the head of the family then yes the man should be submissive. (This isn't the case though)
2. I am an American citizen, but I would never think I really understood somewhere I wasn't raised especially if the culture is different like the Virgin Islands.
3. The terms are not interchangable. I suggest not labeling yourself until you figure out who you are(Bi sexual might be closest for you).
4. The traditional role of men is the head of the family. Since this role is changing, this is what is leading to the break down of the institution of marriage. If same sex couple marry, one always assumes the dominate role. Gay couples seem to have less problems in their relationship because this is a given. Two dominates would never work, just as two submissives wouldn't.
I predict that marriage will cease to exsist in a century due to this confusion of roles caused by "Equal Rights".

Originally Posted by mercedesjin (Post 740453)

1. Okay, cool. So, how does "the head of the household" fit into a 50-50 relationship? Do you think there can be an equal relationship if someone is appointed as "the head of the household"?

2. Have you lived in the Virgin Islands? Do you know about the culture of the USVI? How is the USVI culture so drastically different from US culture that you think I can't understand US culture?

3. Have you studied modern-day sexuality? Do you regularly have discourses on sexuality? Do you know what sexual fluidity is?

4. Same as #1, I suppose: how do you propose a relationship be equal if you feel that someone MUST assume the "dominant" role?

Originally Posted by bELyVIS (Post 740364)

4.I am not saying that women should be oppressed. Just by their attempting to be equal, they have overshot this goal and think that they can only be equal is by castrating men. Men have to question their role in marriage now and that is why marriages are failing. My father doesn't oppress my mom, but his role is traditionally defined and he feels like he runs the family. In truth, my mother has feminine ways to manipulate him if need be without taking his manhood away.
Does this answer your questions?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 740494)

How funny.

Just because you start a post with that sentence doesn't mean you can get away with the rest of what you say.

I mean seriously.. you paint the typical marriage between two Westerners as an inherently antagonistic power struggle and blame the failure of modern Western women for accepting their feminine role for it.

I'm sorry but that's just bullsh*t.

Even if the former were true (which I don't believe it is for a second), why would the latter be the fault of the woman? It could just as easily be presumed that the failure of the man to relinquish outdated traditions is to blame.

You haven't given us an insight into anything except your way of thinking. Please stop speaking for all Westerners (Americans????) and just speak for yourself.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS (Post 740525)

If you were paying attention you notice I say "this is my opinion". I can only give you insight to my thinking because no one has any idea WTF you are talking about-EVER. (Nor do we care)

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 740535)

Let's not have another fight start here. Ronin, he never said he spoke for anyone but himself. It's not worth getting banned again, is it?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 740494)

Please stop speaking for all Westerners (Americans????) and just speak for yourself.

Originally Posted by bELyVIS (Post 740663)

My opinion comes from observations and feedback from clients, friends, people I've talked to, articles, etc.
Here is just one of many I've read:
Why I, as an ardent anti-feminist, feel sorry for women

I do believe in equality, but feel that women overcompensate and this is the problem. I do feel that most men caused this need by not allowing women easy access to this right. Women still get less pay for the same job, this is unfair.
Men are taught to be protector, provider, and head of the family. We feel threatened when our role is in question. While women are being taught at a young age to be independent and equal, men are still being taught that they need to still act in their traditional roles. This is where the problems lie.
This is my last say on this topic.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire (Post 740723)

Oh great... now you link some stupid blog.

You want to know my opinion? You are unsuccessful with Western women and percieve Asian women to be more submissive and therefore are attracted to them.

It's as simple as that. You see it all the time with Western guys who have fetishes for Asian women.