Obama vs. McCain

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Paul11

MMM - You are distorting facts again. McCain made a comment about 100 years and Iraq. He did not say we would be fighting there for 100 years. You know, we just can't leave now. Then the cleansing and mass murder would start on a level unprecedented. People are turning out extremists and siding with the U.S. now because they know we're winning and have proved we won't just abandoned them. I know this because I've talked to soldiers and leaders in the armed forces. Also, because the Democrat leaning press doesn't want you to know this.

Concerning Iraq I can see the Republican point of view. If you leave Iraq then it will possibly have a negative effect on Iraqi's. It could possibly lead to civil war, Iran becoming stronger or both.

I suppose the big question is: At what cost should the United States commit themselves to fix what was undoubtedly a very bad set of decisions?

As a foriegner who blames the US completely for the chaos that has resulted, a part of me believes that it is the responsibility of the US to clean up it's mess. Though I also believe Iraqi's themselves share that responsibility and respect the fact that to many Americans, the cost to support them might be too high and that it may in fact be better for Iraq, America and maybe even the world in the long term, if they withdraw.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Paul11

MMM - You are distorting facts again. McCain made a comment about 100 years and Iraq. He did not say we would be fighting there for 100 years.

If you are going to misquote me, at least do me the honor of actually quoting what I said.

I said: Who has proposed keeping our troops in Iraq for the next 100 years?


And you accuse me of "distorting facts"?

Originally Posted by Paul11

You know, we just can't leave now. Then the cleansing and mass murder would start on a level unprecedented. People are turning out extremists and siding with the U.S. now because they know we're winning and have proved we won't just abandoned them. I know this because I've talked to soldiers and leaders in the armed forces. Also, because the Democrat leaning press doesn't want you to know this.

I didn't say leave now. I just can't support a candidate that doesn't see an end to the war. Very simply, as a country we cannot afford to be responible for any other country other than our own. The war in Iraq has proven that, in spades. Obama sees an end to the war and our occupation. McCain doesn't.

Did you know the US is asking the Iraqi leaders to allow the US to build 50 PERMANENT bases in Iraq right now? Our government is planning on Iraq to turn into another Okinawa (but 50 bases). That doesn't sound like anyone in the present administration is pushing for us to bring our men and women home, and McCain will be more of the same.

Originally Posted by Paul11

And you showed your stripes as a true shrill liberal when you point out that McCain is freinds of Bush and cheney. He's also pals with Hill Clinton. I love it when you people blame Bush for everthing. Bush this and Bush that. Get off it. I don't want the guy in there any longer either, but he's done some good things as well. I'm privy to security briefs from certain agencies, and let me tell you - tons of attacks within the States have been averted from terrorists within. This is something you won't hear from the lopsided press.

Too bad you can't share your top secret information. I'd love to hear it.

It's interesting because news of thwarted terrorist strikes usually makes pretty big headlines.

Listen, you are the one that said you didn't trust Obama because of the company he keeps. I said if that's how we should judge a candidate, than McCain is certainly much more worrisome than a shady real-estate broker and a war protester. Besides Bush and Cheney I also mentioned the dozens of lobbyists McCain has working within his campaign. A campaign which claims it will clear Washington DC of the lobbyists that are there. But McCain has been in Washington DC for over 20 years.

[Paul11]

I completely agree with ronin4hire and most of what mmm said.

But Obmas friend william ayers was not a war protester. He was part of a terroris group that bombed federal buildings and police depts. He was trying to kill cops and is unrepentant about it today. Obamas wife has never been proud of her country. His very close friend and pastor hates america. Everyone around obama showes hatred and spite for america. This doen'st concern you? You can't deny that it seems everyone around him (even his mom) hates the states and he probably does, too. If you can ignore this stuff, WOW!

He said he will raise taxes hugely.

He wants to abandon Iraq, which will probably leave millions dead ans an even more unstable region, just like we did in nam.

an Obama has never done anything, has no experience and didn't vote often as a senator in D.C.

None of this is debatable. It adds up to contempt for the U.S. middle class and the country in general. You think that's ok.

I'm not a big fan of McCain or Bush. But none of these facts about Obama are even debatable. They're common knowledge as part of the debate here in the states. That is not an acceptable candidate

Again, its the lesser of two eveils. One who has served our country and one who showes contempt.

[Paul11]

Did you know the US is asking the Iraqi leaders to allow the US to build 50 PERMANENT bases in Iraq right now? Our government is planning on Iraq to turn into another Okinawa (but 50 bases). That doesn't sound like anyone in the present administration is pushing for us to bring our men and women home, and McCain will be more of the same.


GOOD

Too bad you can't share your top secret information. I'd love to hear it.

Don't be a smart ass. I didn't say top secret. But definitely can't share.

[Paul11]

"Did you know the US is asking the Iraqi leaders to allow the US to build 50 PERMANENT bases in Iraq right now? Our government is planning on Iraq to turn into another Okinawa (but 50 bases). That doesn't sound like anyone in the present administration is pushing for us to bring our men and women home, and McCain will be more of the same."


GOOD

"Too bad you can't share your top secret information. I'd love to hear it."

Don't be a smart ass. I didn't say top secret. But definitely can't share.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Paul11

"Too bad you can't share your top secret information. I'd love to hear it."

Don't be a smart ass. I didn't say top secret. But definitely can't share.

Isn't that pretty much the same thing, then? It's too confidential to share is what you pretty much said. It's the same as "top secret information", isn't it?

[Paul11]

I guess. Just felt like I was called a liar with that statement.

MMM states the press reports advances on the american side. Not true. The press is overwhelmingly left and don't regularly report such. Got to go to a source that is more proned to report such. Get away from CNN and the large papers.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Paul11

I guess. Just felt like I was called a liar with that statement.

I can't speak for MMM, but I don't think that was the case. I think he genuinely wanted to know of the "top secret information" so that he could debate better.

[Paul11]

I very much wish that stuff was widely broadcast. But, sorry.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Paul11

I completely agree with ronin4hire and most of what mmm said.

But Obmas friend william ayers was not a war protester. He was part of a terroris group that bombed federal buildings and police depts. He was trying to kill cops and is unrepentant about it today. Obamas wife has never been proud of her country. His very close friend and pastor hates america. Everyone around obama showes hatred and spite for america. This doen'st concern you? You can't deny that it seems everyone around him (even his mom) hates the states and he probably does, too. If you can ignore this stuff, WOW!

The Weathermen never tried to kill anyone. They did bomb buildings, but always issued warnings before hand.

His relationship to Obama was they both served on a Chicago school board at the same time. I beleive Ayers gave money to Obama's campaign many years ago. If he is such an evil man, why is a part of Illinois government and is a universtity professor. Let's not blow this into something it isn't?

Obama is no longer tied to Rev. Wright. He is no longer his friend or his pastor.

Obama's wife misspoke and immediately rephrased her statement. What she had meant to say is that she had never been more proud of America than she was now, seeing her husband achieve what he was achieving.

You really beleive Obama hates America? C'mon. You are falling for extreme right-wing scare tactics. THAT'S what concerns me. When the conservatives don't have any dirt, they make things up. Now you are calling his mother anti-America? The poor woman has been dead for 13 years.

Originally Posted by Paul11

He said he will raise taxes hugely.

Where did you find that quote?

Originally Posted by Paul11

He wants to abandon Iraq, which will probably leave millions dead ans an even more unstable region, just like we did in nam.

I'll let you be the one to compare Vietnam and Iraq, but it sounds like we agree on that one.

Obama hasn't said "abandon" Iraq. He says he will start pulling troops out soon after he takes office. Iraq is not a day-care center. It is a soveign nation that has been around (as Iraq and Persia) a hell of a lot longer than we have.

Originally Posted by Paul11

an Obama has never done anything, has no experience and didn't vote often as a senator in D.C.

Want to compare voting records?

From AP:McCain has missed 255 of 450 votes cast in the Senate since January including every vote this year. That's according to the Democratic National Committee, which keeps a tally.

Obama has missed about 40 percent, or 170 votes, and Clinton has missed 24 percent, or 108 votes, according to the DNC tally.

Originally Posted by Paul11

None of this is debatable. It adds up to contempt for the U.S. middle class and the country in general. You think that's ok.

Obviously everything is debatable. On the surface you paint a scary picture. But I didn't have to dig very deep to show that the Republican Fear Factor Sheet on Obama is full of holes.

Originally Posted by Paul11

I'm not a big fan of McCain or Bush. But none of these facts about Obama are even debatable. They're common knowledge as part of the debate here in the states. That is not an acceptable candidate

Again, its the lesser of two eveils. One who has served our country and one who showes contempt.

What isn't debateable is calling Obama anti-American means you guys are forced to scrape pretty low to try and muck up this man's reputation. If "Anti-American" is the best you can do, then I know my choice in Obama is even more solid than I thought.