China: New Superpower?

[kireikoori]

I personally don't believe in rulers.
Even the United States isn't Democratic enough for me.

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

If the leaders are good leaders it works.

Ahh.. the good ol' "Dictatorship is good if the dictator is a nice guy" =D Yeah, that have worked great in every country that has been a dictatorship

I'm getting tired of this thread so I'll just reply to you noodle:

Originally Posted by noodle

Dude, have you even read anything I've written in this thread? I haven't claimed that China was some kind of heavan. The closest I came to that was saying that it was a beautiful country and people. I replied to Tenchu when he said noone had been to china, and I added that this is another reason WHY I defended china. Whether I was there for a couple of weeks or a couple of years is irrelavent, because the fact is, I've been there for longer than MOST OF YOU. And for you guys to debate as if YOU know what it's like is more ridiculous than me arguing as IF i know what it's like. Hint, I've been there for a couple of weeks more than you, so that's a lot more information than you can get from bias news. Oh and, don't bother starting this whole I'm saying the west lies. Go read what was written in previous pages.

I'm glad there will be more people like me. People need to have an open mind instead of watching the news and assuming that the whole country is f-ed up (this is not personally you, but a lot of people think China is some f-ed up country. For proof of this, just watch the protests against the olympics. You will see foreign people that have never been to china trying to convince chinese people that their government is f-ed up and is trying to destroy them...). I will never proclaim that China is perfect. Far from it, but I will always fight against people that have this ridiculous negative image of it simply from some crappy documentary or news report they've seen. But then again, I'm not surprised... Jealousy seems to run in the blood of the westerners...

EDIT;

Another thing... Do you really thing the Chinese people are trained dogs or something? Do you really believe that if people spoke their mind, they'd be jailed? hahahahahaaaa. That's as far from the truth as it can be. People speak out against their government like any other country. I like how you've applied an isolated incident to a whole population. It's funny, I could say the same thing about Europe as well. Need I remind you that an english person got jailed for three years for doubting how many Jew's were killed in WW2? Seriously, just GO to china, or meet chinese people. They speak out as much as anyone else.

The fact that you've been there longer than us doesn't mean you know how the real situation there is. I'm not saying nor have I ever said I was some kind of China expert. What I mainly jumped into this discussion for was to point out the hypocrisy of proclaiming that you know the situation after visiting a country for a few weeks. So it's most relevant. I'd trust journalists who have lived there for years more than a guy on a forum who "visited with friends" for a few weeks.

It's easy to see that you don't bother trying to understand my posts or my position and critique on your statements, so I'm not gonna try more after this post (I don't talk to walls, either). But sure, please try to twist my words into "chinese people are trained dogs".

I have nothing against a person because he/she is chinese. I do however object to single-party states which rule what people can and can't say. As you say, there are chinese people who speak out, luckily! The problem lies in that this is a risky thing to do there, which is proved by many accounts. Show me some chinese newspapers that openly criticizes the government and get away with it, please.

I don't know about the englishman getting jailed, I'm sure he did more than "doubt" if he got three years though.. Did he deny the holocaust? What did he do,exactly?

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

People need to have an open mind

This I agree with. Pity you don't seem to take your own advice.

Anyways, I don't like to nor do I have to discuss things with people who uses insults and personal attacks instead of arguments to "make points". So what am I doing here? bye.

[Acidreptile]

Who talked about dictatorship Henbaka?I haven't.

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

Who talked about dictatorship Henbaka?I haven't.

Oh, I'm sorry. Not a dictatorship then, instead a few guys deciding everything?

[Acidreptile]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

Oh, I'm sorry. Not a dictatorship then, instead a few guys deciding everything?

Exactly.A few competent guys deciding everything instead of thousands of idiots voting and electing bad leaders that will steal the country away.

[Henbaka]

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

Exactly.A few competent guys deciding everything instead of thousands of idiots voting and electing bad leaders that will steal the country away.

Yeah. Which doesn't work.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

The fact that you've been there longer than us doesn't mean you know how the real situation there is. I'm not saying nor have I ever said I was some kind of China expert. What I mainly jumped into this discussion for was to point out the hypocrisy of proclaiming that you know the situation after visiting a country for a few weeks. So it's most relevant. I'd trust journalists who have lived there for years more than a guy on a forum who "visited with friends" for a few weeks.

It's easy to see that you don't bother trying to understand my posts or my position and critique on your statements, so I'm not gonna try more after this post (I don't talk to walls, either). But sure, please try to twist my words into "chinese people are trained dogs".

I have nothing against a person because he/she is chinese. I do however object to single-party states which rule what people can and can't say. As you say, there are chinese people who speak out, luckily! The problem lies in that this is a risky thing to do there, which is proved by many accounts. Show me some chinese newspapers that openly criticizes the government and get away with it, please.

I don't know about the englishman getting jailed, I'm sure he did more than "doubt" if he got three years though.. Did he deny the holocaust? What did he do,exactly?

Did I say that I know how the situation is there SIMPLY from being there a couple of weeks. I beg you, if you really wanna debate with me about this, just check my other posts in this thread. I think you'll find that the main thing I've been saying is not to trust EVERYTHING one news source says. i.e. check out the chinese news as well as the western news as well as other sources AND your own experiences from going there etc etc etc... And ditto, "I'm not saying nor have I ever said I was some kind of China expert."

I don't try to understand your words? You're implying that people don't speak out and that if they do, they get imprisoned... If that's not what you were saying, then I am sorry, but could you then please, clarify it for me. Oh and btw, I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else on this forum, so I don't know where you got that idea from. My whole point on this thread was "do no prejudge".

There are about as many incidents where a westerner has spoken out and faced punishement as there are in china. I really don't get how you don't understand this. People in china DO speak out about things they don't like, pretty much like anywhere else in the world. Certain people do get jailed for speaking out, just like anywhere else in the world. Jeez, that guy from RSF (reporters without boarders) has been jailed and banned from PLENTY of countries. He's even been jailed in France (the home of this organisation).

My problem with most of you guys, is that you don't realise how big China is. As it's such a big country, you're more likely to have more bad incidents occur. BUT, you are also gonna have a lot of goood coming from the country. I simply don't like how people are focusing on the negative sides, and sometimes exagurating the negativity for god knows what reason. Like I said previously in this post. I find it funny that a couple of decades ago, the west was saying how barbaric and uncivilized China was because everyone was on bikes, but today, the world is complaining at how much polution it produces simply because they've advanced...
This is simply what I don't like about most people. I will never ever say China is perfect. If I ever do, I hope to god that I say it whilst I'm admitted in a mental hospital. Same goes for any other country. But to complain about a country without considering the good it's doing is Hypocritical in my eyes and is swimming in jealousy...

[Acidreptile]

Originally Posted by noodle

Did I say that I know how the situation is there SIMPLY from being there a couple of weeks. I beg you, if you really wanna debate with me about this, just check my other posts in this thread. I think you'll find that the main thing I've been saying is not to trust EVERYTHING one news source says. i.e. check out the chinese news as well as the western news as well as other sources AND your own experiences from going there etc etc etc... And ditto, "I'm not saying nor have I ever said I was some kind of China expert."

I don't try to understand your words? You're implying that people don't speak out and that if they do, they get imprisoned... If that's not what you were saying, then I am sorry, but could you then please, clarify it for me. Oh and btw, I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else on this forum, so I don't know where you got that idea from. My whole point on this thread was "do no prejudge".

There are about as many incidents where a westerner has spoken out and faced punishement as there are in china. I really don't get how you don't understand this. People in china DO speak out about things they don't like, pretty much like anywhere else in the world. Certain people do get jailed for speaking out, just like anywhere else in the world. Jeez, that guy from RSF (reporters without boarders) has been jailed and banned from PLENTY of countries. He's even been jailed in France (the home of this organisation).

My problem with most of you guys, is that you don't realise how big China is. As it's such a big country, you're more likely to have more bad incidents occur. BUT, you are also gonna have a lot of goood coming from the country. I simply don't like how people are focusing on the negative sides, and sometimes exagurating the negativity for god knows what reason. Like I said previously in this post. I find it funny that a couple of decades ago, the west was saying how barbaric and uncivilized China was because everyone was on bikes, but today, the world is complaining at how much polution it produces simply because they've advanced...
This is simply what I don't like about most people. I will never ever say China is perfect. If I ever do, I hope to god that I say it whilst I'm admitted in a mental hospital. Same goes for any other country. But to complain about a country without considering the good it's doing is Hypocritical in my eyes and is swimming in jealousy...

Quit trying to explain Noodle.They are all brainwashed by capitalist propaganda..

[Henbaka]

"Just when I thought I was out, you pull me back in..."

Well. In my mind you came off as saying "I was there for a few weeks, so I know how it is there". Why even mention it when it doesn't really give you any extra credibility when discussing the problems of such a (as you also point out) massive country?

Let me just ask you this; is media free in China? Can reporters report on and write stories about any topic they please? Because in western countries they can. (I'm not trying to make this east vs west, plenty of eastern countries have free press I'm sure). What about Tiananmen Square? Do you think reporters can speculate and write articles about that?

You tell others to not prejudge, but people aren't prejudging, they are listening to what they believe to be credible journalists' accounts, rather than taking the official word of a single-party state that "everything's fine".

Ehh barbaric because they rode bikes? First I've heard of that.

Anyways I actually didn't wanna get stuck in a China discussion, but I guess I failed a bit there.. But I will never ever trust a single-party state to be a working (in the sense beyond just economic growth) solution.

Originally Posted by Acidreptile

Quit trying to explain Noodle.They are all brainwashed by capitalist propaganda..

It's always fun to see that you got nothing to come with, so you just spew out some random comment like that meant to provoke.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Henbaka

"Just when I thought I was out, you pull me back in..."

Well. In my mind you came off as saying "I was there for a few weeks, so I know how it is there". Why even mention it when it doesn't really give you any extra credibility when discussing the problems of such a (as you also point out) massive country?

Let me just ask you this; is media free in China? Can reporters report on and write stories about any topic they please? Because in western countries they can. (I'm not trying to make this east vs west, plenty of eastern countries have free press I'm sure). What about Tiananmen Square? Do you think reporters can speculate and write articles about that?

You tell others to not prejudge, but people aren't prejudging, they are listening to what they believe to be credible journalists' accounts, rather than taking the official word of a single-party state that "everything's fine".

Ehh barbaric because they rode bikes? First I've heard of that.

Anyways I actually didn't wanna get stuck in a China discussion, but I guess I failed a bit there.. But I will never ever trust a single-party state to be a working (in the sense beyond just economic growth) solution.

It may not REALLY give me extra credability, but it does give me a better insight on life in china compared to what you see on TV. Most people are scared of China, even I was slightly worried from all the stories on TV. BUT, being there opened my eyes, so it IS important that went there, but I NEVER said it made me an expert.

I don't think you should talk for the people. In my experience, most people I see are pretty racist against the chinese, especially when China appears on the news. I've witnissed this mainly in France. England doesn't seem too bothered, but that might have to do with the fact that most people in England don't really care what the news tells them, especially about what doesn't really concern England. But then again, that might just be the people I hang around with...

Is the media free? I don't know, but I don't see why it shouldn't be. Like the question Ronin4hire so convinienlty dodged earlier in this thread, if the chinese recieve news from abroad (proven, because they boycotted french products due to french protests), wouldn't they do something about their so-called lying/hiding media? I cannot give you a definate yes or no, as I don't know any chinese dialects to check, but if you watch CCTV english or french, they seem to show everything that the west shows. Sometimes, they even talk about what other channels have said. Sometimes, they agree (for instance, Chinese should be more considerate and cue up instead of pushing to be first), and sometimes they disagree (i.e. Tibet issue. you know what the west say, the Chinese say it was an organised thing from Anti-Chinese government groups within Tibet and surrounding areas).
Can reporters, report........ Same answer as above. I wouldn't dare say anything for SURE, same as I wouldn't say anything for sure about western media.

Tiananmen Square... Well, I don't know what answer you're looking for, but different people have different feelings about it (Chinese I know). Whether they write about it or not, I wouldn't know...

I'm not surprised that you haven't heard about it. I doubt it'd ever be mentioned on western news or tv. Just like you'll hardly ever hear about how people were talking about a global cooling a couple decades ago. The only people you'll hear that from is anti-(human made global warming) fenatics...

As for the last part... Whatever floats your boat I guess... I'm not gonna argue with that... That's your opinion and you're fully intitled to that...