Japan intends to distance itself from US (politics)

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

It doesn't matter what concessions the Chinese make. If the Tibetans didn't decide it for themselves and can't decide for themselves and if the general feeling in Tibet is toward independence... then the Chinese are oppressors.

Ronin, it is much more complicated that that. However you spin it, tibet is part of China, that is not negotiable to China for a good reason. China is a multicultural country. There are 56 ethnicities. If ethnicity is what defines a country, then China will break up into 56 bits. You think anyone would allow that to happen? Fat chance. This debate is mute.

As for west caring about Tibet, thats just bs. Tibet problem? what problem. Hillary Clinton didn't seem to give a flying f*** about Tibet, as long as China can buy more US treasury bills. In the real world, money talks, b******* walks.

[komitsuki]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Big deal. The North Koreans call themselves the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea.

Tibet is hardly autonomous. They had Chinese law imposed upon them since China invaded in the 1950's.

Today's democracy is so crony. And it's Democratic People's Republic of Korea (don't put North). Are you sure you know what you are talking about? I'm afraid that you don't and it makes me nervous.

Though you're ignoring the Qing interventions? That's a faux paux you have...

As a descendant of a minority in China living in the West, I sadly have to disagree with your fanatic devotion of the Free Tibet cult. Other than Dalai Lama is likely a CIA agent. The CIA's Secret War in Tibet

Originally Posted by kirakira

Ronin, it is much more complicated that that. However you spin it, tibet is part of China, that is not negotiable to China for a good reason. China is a multicultural country. There are 56 ethnicities. If ethnicity is what defines a country, then China will break up into 56 bits. You think anyone would allow that to happen? Fat chance. This debate is mute.

By his logic, there must be a newly independent Maori state. Or total isolation of Maori as a fully nation without any intervention of the New Zealand government 100%.

Originally Posted by kirakira

As for west caring about Tibet, thats just bs. Tibet problem? what problem. Hillary Clinton didn't seem to give a flying f*** about Tibet, as long as China can buy more US treasury bills. In the real world, money talks, b******* walks.

And this is why some people say that America is turning into an ironic Chinese colony.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by kirakira

Ronin, it is much more complicated that that. However you spin it, tibet is part of China, that is not negotiable to China for a good reason. China is a multicultural country. There are 56 ethnicities. If ethnicity is what defines a country, then China will break up into 56 bits. You think anyone would allow that to happen? Fat chance. This debate is mute.

As for west caring about Tibet, thats just bs. Tibet problem? what problem. Hillary Clinton didn't seem to give a flying f*** about Tibet, as long as China can buy more US treasury bills. In the real world, money talks, b******* walks.

Ethnicity doesn't define a country. Self determination does. China is a multicultural country. Fine I accept that. But multiculturalism does not come at the expense of a nation's self-determination.

I never said the West cared about Tibet... but I do give a "flying f*ck".

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I never said the West cared about Tibet... but I do give a "flying f*ck".

Not all Tibetans are for independence as the singer Alan Dawa Dolma the Avex Tibetan JPOP singer can attest to. Her blog entry about Tibet (She opposes independence movement) was quickly censored because it was politically incorrect (by her employer Avex I assume).

One thing is for certain, nothing will change Tibet's sovereignty. We just need to hope that the Chinese government will bring happiness to Tibet.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by komitsuki

Today's democracy is so crony. And it's Democratic People's Republic of Korea (don't put North). Are you sure you know what you are talking about? I'm afraid that you don't and it makes me nervous.

Meh.. If all you can do is snipe at a few technicalities then please save it. I'm not interested unless the point was lost.

Originally Posted by komitsuki

Though you're ignoring the Qing interventions? That's a faux paux you have...

The most recent history is most relevant. Next thing you'll be telling me the British Empire has a right to claim back all it's territories

Originally Posted by komitsuki

As a descendant of a minority in China living in the West, I sadly have to disagree with your fanatic devotion of the Free Tibet cult. Other than Dalai Lama is likely a CIA agent. The CIA's Secret War in Tibet

If you're not a Tibetan then you really shouldn't be using your nationality to give weight to your argument. In fact you being Chinese would make you more biased towards China. So please... I'm only interested in the merits of what you say not who you identify yourself as.

Originally Posted by komitsuki

By his logic, there must be a newly independent Maori state. Or total isolation of Maori as a fully nation without any intervention of the New Zealand government 100%.

First of all, if Maori decided this then that would be fine by me.

Fortunately in our democracy, Maori people have a political voice and the means to express such a voice. The Maori party and the Maori affairs ministers for other parties have expressed no such desire to become independent or otherwise.

Let Tibetan's have a voice and see what they really want the same way Maori can do so.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by kirakira

Not all Tibetans are for independence as the singer Alan Dawa Dolma the Avex Tibetan JPOP singer can attest to. Her blog entry about Tibet (She opposes independence movement) was quickly censored because it was politically incorrect (by her employer Avex I assume).

One thing is for certain, nothing will change Tibet's sovereignty. We just need to hope that the Chinese government will bring happiness to Tibet.

Why don't the Chinese let Tibet vote for what it wants?

Surely if the majority of this pop singers compatriots feel the same way then it will be no problem right?

Again... untill they get a voice... China are the oppressors.

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Fortunately in our democracy, Maori people have a political voice and the means to express such a voice. The Maori party and the Maori affairs ministers for other parties have expressed no such desire to become independent or otherwise.

Let Tibetan's have a voice and see what they really want the same way Maori can do so.

Give the people bread and circus and nobody will want to leave you.

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Why don't the Chinese let Tibet vote for what it wants?

Surely if the majority of this pop singers compatriots feel the same way then it will be no problem right?

Again... untill they get a voice... China are the oppressors.

Because the government is hoping economic properity will shut everyone up, right now Tibet is still economically behind, of course everyone will want to declare independence. It's logical. So the government clampse down hard on decidents, but also at the same time trying to improve everyone's lives through sound macroeconomic policies. When their lives reach a certain standard, people will stop complaining. That's the plan at least.

Seriously, my motto is still, give the people bread and circus, that's the role of the government. I'd rather live in oppressive China than free Zimbabwe.. errr...

You are debating the issue of which one comes first, democracy or propsperity, it is muddy waters indeed.

Anyway human right, what is it anyway? Is it the ability to run your mouth or is it the right to be educated, clothed and fed? To China, right now, the priority is the latter. Makes sense to me.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by kirakira

Give the people bread and circus and nobody will want to leave you.

Maori aren't being "given" anything. They have their own political will under a system that gives them a voice and allows them to determine their own fate as New Zealanders. The nation we all belong to.

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Maori aren't being "given" anything. They have their own political will under a system that gives them a voice and allows them to determine their own fate as New Zealanders. The nation we all belong to.

What? Surely they are covered by NZ's welfare system and living under NZ's reasonable economic environment? That statement made no sense.

Unless NZ actively discriminates against these people by giving them "democracy" but no social benefits, no health care, no education, no running water, no infrastructure on their patch?