Japan Today -> Pearl Harbor?

[bleedingboy]

Originally Posted by Spiros

Oh stop bloody nit picking.You know very well I wasn`t saying each and every individual Japanese was responsible.And if you want to be so picky about it you and a lot of others use the words "Japanese" and "America" so don`t be such a hypocrite.

ay putang inang tarantado, chinga tu madre. we can settle this now. let's close the thread, you also know that upon reading several inappropriate language you were using, made me think you were some "i went to college, and i know alot" type of person, well most of them are stupid and they think all the history they could learn is written on the book. expect people to think you're so lowly with the way you talk. not to be a hypocrite.

[Spiros]

Originally Posted by bleedingboy

inappropriate language

What the hell are you talking about?When and where did I use inapropriate language?
As for the college stuff ,no you could not be further from the truth.Some people were making me out to be some kind of Japan basher so I was trying to show that i have spent a lot of time here so I actually love the place
and the people.
The history I have learnt is not all written in a book.It comes from talking with academics and even people who were in the war.I have interviewed a Hiroshima survivor and a gent who was a POW of the Australians and these people told me a lot of things you will never ever see in any book.
And enough of the name calling boy.

[bleedingboy]

let's have a deal. you reduce you attitude, i'll reduce mine. unfortunately, the way you talk gives us that, | i know it all | views of you. is that a deal? then we close the thread.

do we have a deal then?

[Spiros]

Originally Posted by bleedingboy

let's have a deal. you reduce you attitude, i'll reduce mine. unfortunately, the way you talk gives us that, | i know it all | views of you. is that a deal? then we close the thread.

do we have a deal then?

You will if I will....what gives you the right to assume to moral high ground?
I don`t know it all,I have opinions and I am entitled to them just as much as you are to yours EVEN IF you or anyone else disagrees.And what about the way you talk?You assume too much about things.
And I don`t want to close this thread,I want the OP to come in on this and expand on his first post.I was genuinely interested to hear his views.

[malainicolae]

Originally Posted by bleedingboy

those nations knew their consequence of action, america knew the consequences of their action. all of these wars are consequences of effects of some cause. world war 2 rooted out from world war 1. and so on and so forth.
here's what you should keep in mind, that to keep the minds of their [nation's] people, they'll tell the story from a their perspective that they've won.

an example
i once saw a documentary on how things were justifiable when they colonized our country or bought it off from another, and how they establish a sentence that seems to claim, "if it wasn't for us..." that's their perspective, the justify their works. but then from our side...."they were wrong, the enemy and the invaders."

It is very interesting which was the source of that??

[BillyT]

Japanese war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Japanese war crimes occurred during the period of Japanese imperialism. Other names, such as the Asian Holocaust and Japanese war atrocities, are also used for these war crimes. Some war crimes were committed by military personnel from the Empire of Japan in the late 19th century, although most took place during the first part of the Shōwa Era, the name given to the reign of Emperor Hirohito, until the military defeat of the Empire of Japan, in 1945.

Historians and governments of many countries officially hold Japanese military forces, namely the Imperial Japanese Army and the Imperial Japanese Navy, responsible for killings and other crimes committed against many millions of civilians and prisoners of war (POWs).

Contents
2.1 Japanese military culture and imperialism
3.1 Mass killings
3.2 Experiments on humans and biological warfare
3.3 Use of chemical weapons
3.4 Preventable famine
3.5 Torture of POWs
3.6 Cannibalism
3.7 Forced labour
3.8 Comfort women



Major incidents
Alexandra Hospital massacre
Andaman Islands
Banka Island Massacre
Batu Lintang POW/internment camp
Bataan Death March
Burma Railway
Changjiao Massacre
Changteh Chemical Weapon Attack
Comfort women
Hell Ships
Japanese human experimentations
Kaimingye germ weapon attack
Laha Massacre
Manila Massacre
Nanking Massacre
Parit Sulong Massacre
Panjiayu Massacre
Sandakan Death Marches
Sook Ching Massacre
Three Alls Policy
Tol Plantation Massacre
Wake Island massacre
War crimes in Manchukuo


Two Japanese officers, Toshiaki Mukai and Tsuyoshi Noda competing to see who could kill (with a sword) one hundred people first. The bold headline reads, "'Incredible Record' (in the Contest To Cut Down 100 People—Mukai 106 – 105 Noda—Both 2nd Lieutenants Go Into Extra Innings"

Contest to kill 100 people using a sword - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because of the sheer scale of suffering caused by the Japanese military during the 1930s and 1940s, it is often compared to the military of Nazi Germany during 1933–45. The historian Chalmers Johnson has written that:

It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised. The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians [i.e. Soviet citizens]; the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese. Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale, though Japan plundered more, over a longer period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as forced labourers — and, in the case of the Japanese, as [forced] prostitutes for front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not Russia) you faced a 4 % chance of not surviving the war; [by comparison] the death rate for Allied POWs held by the Japanese was nearly 30 %.[7]

[Gorotsuki]

Originally Posted by IamKira

I think both sides are justified. Japan attacked us because of their current situation with us and the global power struggle. When they attacked us, It was justified for us to attack back. We used the Fat Man and Little Boy bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki to bring our fight over there to a quick end. Casualtie on our side would have escalated had we opted for the full scale invasion. In the end, I do not feel the need to assign blame to anyone. I feel that everyone was in the right as well as the wrong.

The usa was not justified in bombing toukyou, nagasaki, or hiroshima...

If they had droped the bombs on areas of Japan that HAD HIGH MILITARY ACTIVITY OR WHERE LEADERS WHERE then I can see it being justified however it was on civilians...many lives lost who were just about all civilians. At least Japan had the decency to Attack where the American military ships and the American military base in the area. Was it justified? NO!!! Nothing was justified for this war.

Japan attacked American military units and personal. America just went and bombed hundred of thousands of civilians... Basically on top of a catholic church...oh yes many military operations going on inside of the biggest catholic (or was it christian) church in Asia.

For hell ships in japanese war crime they where POW'S. Its fair game...not to sound cruel but at least they arn't hunting down and killing American civilians.

THATS NOT EVEN A WAR CRIME! Its a war...kill the enemy...the enemy is not the mass of the people the enemy is the army of the oposition.

We could also sit here and list American war crimes. Chinese war crimes but where does it get us?

Oh quick question.

Did the Japanese war crimes effect millions of people for generations?

[BillyT]

Originally Posted by Gorotsuki

Its a war...kill the enemy...the enemy is not the mass of the people the enemy is the army of the oposition.

Did the Japanese war crimes effect millions of people for generations?

The Japanese slaughtered waaaaaay more innocent civillians than both a-bombs combined.

The Manila massacre, February 1945, refers to the atrocities conducted against Filipino civilians in Manila, Philippines by retreating Japanese troops during World War II.

To avoid needless violence, Japanese Imperial Army General Tomoyuki Yamashita had ordered a withdrawal of Japanese troops from Manila. However, 19,000 soldiers under Vice Admiral Sanji Iwabuchi were encircled within the city. Various credible Western and Eastern sources[1] agree that the death toll was at least 100,000 people. Conservative estimates have the number of civilian casualties at around 111,000— more than the Nagasaki atomic bomb's death toll and more than other countries lost over the course of the entire war. France, for instance, lost around 108,000 civilians during six years of war. The massacre was at its worst in the Battle of Manila. Japanese troops brutally looted, burned, executed and abused women, men and children alike, including priests, Red Cross personnel, prisoners of war and hospital patients. Manila was called the "Warsaw of Asia", being the most devastated city in Asia during World War II.

The Manila massacre is one of several major war crimes committed by the Imperial Japanese Army from the annexation of Manchuria in 1931 to the end of World War II in 1945. It was a major event in Japanese war crimes, where over 15 million Chinese, Korean, Filipino, Indonesian, Burmese, Indochinese civilians, Pacific Islanders, and Allied POWs were killed.

Manila massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Nanking Massacre, commonly known as the Rape of Nanking, was an infamous war crime committed by the Japanese military in and around the then capital of China, Nanjing, after it fell to the Imperial Japanese Army on December 13, 1937. (At the time, Nanjing was known in English as Nanking). The duration of the massacre is not clearly defined, although the violence lasted well into the next six weeks, until early February 1938.

During the occupation of Nanjing, the Japanese army committed numerous atrocities, such as rape, looting, arson and the execution of prisoners of war and civilians. Although the executions began under the pretext of eliminating Chinese soldiers disguised as civilians, a large number of innocent men were intentionally identified as enemy combatants and executed—or simply killed outright—as the massacre gathered momentum. A large number of women and children were also killed, as rape and murder became more widespread.

The extent of the atrocities is debated between China and Japan, with numbers[1] ranging from some Japanese claims of several hundred,[2] to the Chinese claim of a non-combatant death toll of 300,000[3]. A number of Japanese researchers consider 100,000 – 200,000 to be an approximate value.[4] Other nations usually believe the death toll to be between 150,000 – 300,000.[5] This number was first promulgated in January of 1938 by Harold Timperly, a journalist in China during the Japanese invasion, based on reports from contemporary eyewitnesses. Other sources, including Iris Chang's The Rape of Nanking, also promote 300,000 as the death toll.

Thirty girls were taken from the language school last night, and today I have heard scores of heartbreaking stories of girls who were taken from their homes last night—one of the girls was but 12 years old....Tonight a truck passed in which there were eight or ten girls, and as it passed they called out "Jiu ming! Jiu ming!"—save our lives. (Minnie Vautrin's diary, 16 December 1937)

It is a horrible story to relate; I know not where to begin nor to end. Never have I heard or read of such brutality. Rape: We estimate at least 1,000 cases a night and many by day. In case of resistance or anything that seems like disapproval there is a bayonet stab or a bullet. (James McCallum, letter to his family, 19 December 1937)

The International Military Tribunal for the Far East stated that 20,000 (and perhaps up to 80,000) women were raped—their ages ranging from infants to the elderly (as old as 80). Rapes were often performed in public during the day, sometimes in front of spouses or family members. A large number of them were systematized in a process where soldiers would search door-to-door for young girls, with many women taken captive and gang raped. The women were then killed immediately after the rape, often by mutilation.

Thousands were led away and mass-executed in an excavation known as the "Ten-Thousand-Corpse Ditch", a trench measuring about 300m long and 5m wide. Since records were not kept, estimates regarding the number of victims buried in the ditch range from 4,000 to 20,000. However, most scholars and historians consider the number to be around 12,000 victims.[18]

Women and children were not spared from the horrors of the massacres. Often times, Japanese soldiers cut off the breasts, disemboweled them, or in the case of pregnant women, cut open the uterus and removed the fetus. Witnesses recall Japanese soldiers throwing babies into the air and catching them with their bayonets. Pregnant women were often the target of murder, as they would often be bayoneted in the belly, sometimes after rape.[19] Many women were first brutally raped then killed.


Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Gorotsuki

The usa was not justified in bombing toukyou, nagasaki, or hiroshima...

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
come·up·pance [kuhm-uhp-uhns]
–noun Informal.
Deserved reward or just deserts, usually unpleasant: He finally got his comeuppance for his misbehavior.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1855–60, Americanism; from phrase come up + -ance]
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

[Gorotsuki]

Never said that was justified...do I think that the japanese public should have to pay for the war crimes they have done...no. Its like this

A person goes out and shoots an innocent person...I have a conflict with this person so I decide to go out and shoot an innocent person as well...where does this make things better?

Point is civilians at no point should have been brought into this war nor did any civilians deserve to die or pay for what their government did.

[Suki]

Thank you BillyT (um something to do with Billy Talent, the band?), all of that is so intersting!

As I always say, war crimes can't really be discussed properly since none of us was there, and maybe we'd have a complet different point of view if we'd gone through any of that. You cannot blame Japanese people for the Pearl Harbor bombing, the ones who are responsible for that are all dead so there's no point in hating a whole nation for something they had nothing to do with. If you ask Japanese population how the feel about that, they'll probably say it should have never happened, the same thing Americans say when they are asked about the A-bomb dropping.