閉める / 閉じる

[Maxful]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have another question which is regarding "載せる" and "置く". I would like to know if the following sentences are correct?

リフトに箱を載せる
リフトに箱を置く

かばんをここに載せる
かばんをここに置く

かばんをテーブルの上に載せる
かばんをテーブルの上に置く

荷物カートにスーツケースを載せる
荷物カートにスーツケースを置く

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Maxful

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have another question which is regarding "載せる" and "置く". I would like to know if the following sentences are correct?

Not sure why you are pairing those two verbs.

リフトに箱を載せる
リフトに箱を置く

This is what a Japanese-speaker thinks of when s/he hears the word リフト.



かばんをここに載せる Good but I wonder if you know what it means.
かばんをここに置く Good.

かばんをテーブルの上に載せる Straining. Can't imagine a situation where one would say this.
かばんをテーブルの上に置く Good.

荷物カートにスーツケースを載せる Good.
荷物カートにスーツケースを置く Good.

[Maxful]

Originally Posted by masaegu

Not sure why you are pairing those two verbs.

リフトに箱を載せる
リフトに箱を置く

かばんをここに載せる Good but I wonder if you know what it means.
かばんをここに置く Good.

かばんをテーブルの上に載せる Straining. Can't imagine a situation where one would say this.
かばんをテーブルの上に置く Good.

荷物カートにスーツケースを載せる Good.
荷物カートにスーツケースを置く Good.

My mistake. I thought that リフト is equivalent to "Lift/Elevator".

As for "かばんをここに載せる", I thought that it means "Place/put one's bag here", to be honest. But most probably I am wrong judging by the hint you gave.

Could you kindly explain to me why "かばんをテーブルの上に載せる" is wrong?

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Maxful

　As for "かばんをここに載せる", I thought that it means "Place/put one's bag here", to be honest. But most probably I am wrong judging by the hint you gave.

That's what it means, which is why I said it was corrcet. But you can't 載せる an object just anywhere. I said "good" because your sentence just said "here", which is related to your next question.

Could you kindly explain to me why "かばんをテーブルの上に載せる" is wrong?

Because if you 載せる something on another thing, you are saying that you will carry it to someplace. This is why I said I couldn't imagine a situation where you would say this, that is unless you want to move the table itself from point A to point B.

This is why it's natural to say you 載せる something in the truck or elevator. Do you see the logic here?

かばんをテーブルの上に載せる Both table and bag will be moved to another place some time later.
かばんをテーブルの上に置く Both will stay where they are now.

This is why the word ここ played a role in your first question as it can mean "in the truck".

[Maxful]

Also, I am confuse by these sentences.



1. 書類の重要なポイントに印を付ける
mark highlights of a document


2. ×印を付ける
mark a cross


3. カレンダーにその日の覚えとして印を付ける
mark the date on the calendar


4. ペンで○や×を付ける
mark/draw circles and crosses with a pen



First of all, I would like to know why there isn't a need to include "に" before "印" for number 2 and 3?

Secondly, why was "に印" excluded from number 4?

[Maxful]

Originally Posted by masaegu

Because if you 載せる something on another thing, you are saying that you will carry it to someplace. This is why I said I couldn't imagine a situation where you would say this, that is unless you want to move the table itself from point A to point B.

This is why it's natural to say you 載せる something in the truck or elevator. Do you see the logic here?

かばんをテーブルの上に載せる Both table and bag will be moved to another place some time later.
かばんをテーブルの上に置く Both will stay where they are now.

This is why the word ここ played a role in your first question as it can mean "in the truck".

I get it now. If I use "載せる" as put, then it must comes with movement.

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Maxful

Also, I am confuse by these sentences.

1. 書類の重要なポイントに印を付ける
mark highlights of a document

2. ×印を付ける
mark a cross

3. カレンダーにその日の覚えとして印を付ける
mark the date on the calendar

4. ペンで○や×を付ける
mark/draw circles and crosses with a pen

First of all, I would like to know why there isn't a need to include "に" before "印" for number 2 and 3?

Secondly, why was "に印" excluded from number 4?

I'll be honest. I don't get any of these questions.

2. Where do you place a に when there is only one noun （×印） in the phrase　and it's followed by a を??????

3. Don't you see the に there?

4. Show me a spot where you can put a に there when there is no word describing a place.

印 isn't necessary because the words ○ and × already include it. You can say ○印 and ｘ印 as well if you want to.

[Maxful]

Yeah, I must admit that I am still not very good at particles. Take these sentences for example:


1. 先生に聞く
to ask the teacher


2. ドアに触る
to touch the door


3. 山に登る
to climb a mountain


4. 電車に間に合う
to be in time for train


5. 電車に遅れる
to be late for train


6. 忘れ物に気がつく
to become aware of the things that were left behind


7. 駅に着く
to arrive at the station



My question is that I would really like to know why number 1 to 6 use particle "に" instead of "を" and why number 7 use particle "に" instead of "で"?

This has been a problem for me so far, so I would be so grateful if you can enlighten me on this issue and the usage between "に" and "を".

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by Maxful

My question is that I would really like to know why number 1 to 6 use particle "に" instead of "を" and why number 7 use particle "に" instead of "で"?

This has been a problem for me so far, so I would be so grateful if you can enlighten me on this issue and the usage between "に" and "を".

I knew this was a problem for you, which is the reason I was wondering why you appeared so keen on learning new verbs everyday. You cannot use any verb correctly unless you have mastered the basic particles.

I'll give you a big hint rather than an answer here. I think that's far better for you in the long run.

To choose between を and に, always think Transitive vs. Intransitive. It won't disappoint you, that is unless you find the very study of transitive and intransitice disappointing for some reason.

Regarding #7, you cannot use で. The only time you can say 駅で is when you describe an action to take place at the station.
駅でコーラを買った。
駅でマサエグに会った。
恋人と別れた、あの小さな駅で。

[Maxful]

masaeguさん、本当にどうもありがとうございました。