I think you are misunderstanding the definition of the word moral. I never said that they don't kill without reason. But many of their reasons are not moral in my opinion.

And logically since Samurais only did battle and Ninjas were just assassins, this eventually means Ninjas were more dangerous than the former.


This is oversimplification of the issue not logical reasoning in any form.

@ Ronin4hire
Whom of the warriors of the ancient times should be proud, in your opinion?

Whom?

I'm not that well versed in the deeds of individual warriors. Or do you mean as a class? (Samurai, US marine, Hitler's SS etc.)

When speaking in terms of class of warriors... I admire none of them in particular therefore my answer would be none.

Are you against warfare in it's whole?

Yes... who isn't?

If it is not to gain territory or oppress other peoples, but to defend yourself, I for one, am not against warfare.

@ DSX: Do you really think a samurai was only trained in kendo...they we're well adapt at hand-to-hand combat, they even used spears and halberds when they could give an advantage over the sword...

Well that goes without saying. But to say I'm against warfare does not mean I'm a pacifist.

It means I'm against the use of force and the glorification of it.

In fiction and games, I tend to prefer ninjas. They are often given supernatural abilities and such. But I would rather be a samurai than a ninja in feudal Japan.

haha hey
difficult to choose

why is everyone linking to wikipedia - a lot of it is just made up !

I jump in your debate about warfare because I'm really interested into it.
Want or want not, violence is part of nature, like lymphocites who beat the shit out of virus, ect. It's not just part of human nature. The difference is that we structured massive violence in something we call "Warfare".

It's still strange when we think about it. Usually if you kill one person you go in jail and are repressed. But in war you are paid to go kill other persons and are rewarded for it.

That is because you are doing exactly what your government wants you to do, no questions asked.

The Katana is considered the best pre-firearm weapon ever.
Whoever try to refute that will fail.

Glad you agree, but I'm a man.

I don't agree that it's part of human nature...

The human nature argument is mostly always used to justify immoral behaviour.

I believe the only thing integral to human nature when it comes to behaviour is the ability to reason.

In fact I believe the fact that humans can manage their instincts, thoughts and emotions is what sets us apart from animals.

We can logically define peace and rationally seek it... therefore peace does not defy human nature, nor is war an integral part of it.

It doesn't bother me that you're not to be honest....

Most people with a hint of compassion are against warfare.

Compassion for your own people or for other countries peoples?

For both.....

Ninja's got paid.

What a stupid justification...

Again... the only thing that can truly be said about human nature is our ability to reason and manage our emotions to an extent.

One could argue testosterone not only causes war, it causes rape too... so do you believe rape is part of human nature too? I don't.

And if you do believe it is part of human nature, are you for rape like you are for war?

What part of

"Most people with a hint of compassion are against war"

is wrong?

i just don't get it.-_-

this is weird aren't they like the same except a samurai does stuff with a sword???

i prefer choose samurai.. they looked cool like kenshin.. :vsign:

I said violence is part of nature. And human is also part of that same nature.

So you think humans can manage their thoughts, instincts and emotions ?
I think you are overvaluating the humans. Nobody can always control his emotions and instincts.

Human reason is not flawless. Even the best philosopher couldn't seize the real essence of reason. Reason is just a subsequent stage in evolution.

Eventually the Human Reason will refine and get to a new stage and so on and on.

You say you can rationalize peace, I say you can rationalize war.

Do you have proofs that we can rationally seek peace ? In history there is no such thing as peace.

Peace is an utopy. Free to you to believe into it, it is still a fantasy.

What we commonly call peace is simply a state of non-war for a determined time until the next conflict.

Technically, our opinions are in conflict. We are waging a war of opinion.

Fortunately, the casualties are usually low in those kind of conflicts ! HAHA

ehhh...

its like if you are saying "this is weird, aren't a cook and a mechanician the same except a cook does stuff with a knife???"

Ninja are different from Samurai, really.

I always do.TT~TT
so really tell me?

i don't get the difference of a ninja and a samurai

I completely disagree

If it is a part of human nature? Why do I have absolutely no urge to go to war OR rape someone OR beat the sh*t out of someone?

You're an idiot who takes things way too literally.

I would have to choose Samurai as well. At least the romanticized version of them.

A samurai was a feodal noble, pretty much like the european knights. He was a clan warrior.

If a samurai wanted to kill you, he would yell at the public place that you are a coward and would confront you in a duel at a determined place.

___


A ninja was a hired professional to do things like assassination, sabotage, spying or any other cover ops. He was a mercenary.

If a ninja wanted to kill you, he would wait until you sleep at night and slit your throat or poison your food.


Does that give you a good idea ?

Hmm... is it really your argument ?
Pretty weak, don't you think ?
I let you take it back and find something better.

Have you ever thought about what would happen if rape was legal and socially accepted ?
That is social reason that make us refrain our sexual nature, nothing else.

At some point in social groups, there is only 2 choices left : Submission or Confrontation.

Maybe in your utopic way of thinking everyone should be just the same and have the same ressources but unfortunately, pure communism is a fantasy. There is no such things. Human should be born all equal but they are born differently, some more smarter and stronger than others. Therefore, wealth is distributed unequally. Authority is distributed unequally. That is the nature. The strongest of the lion get all the females while the weakest are kicked out. If the weak one want his share of females, he have to come back and confront the dominant male. Do you really think its so different from humans ??

For exemple, if my family was starving and the only ressources available where at my neighbor and he didn't want to give me any, I would go at war against him to get my share of food.

It's just natural.

I agree with the big picture. Although, there are a lot of other processes and factors involved in our ways of thinking than we could imagine.

Yeah.

Fortunately, our little debate is not broadcasted worldwide and not judged by professional sociologist or whatever.

This is pretty much like any common kitchen table chatting

Technically speaking, rape is not human nature. It is in no way instinctual. To dominate over those weaker than you is an animal trait, and to procreate is an animal trait. Sure, rape happens in nature, but it is not as usual as mates choosing each other. Human nature is to actually think about your actions and decide whether or not said actions are really right or wrong. Yes, humans have animal instincts but we also have what you have referred to as human nature. Neither of those consist of rape though.

I guess our problem is to correctly define what we mean by human nature.

I always have in mind the prehistocial man who club the woman to mate her.

Anyway, in my way of thinking, I don't see a lot of difference between animals and humans. For me, humans are just animals with bigger brain which bring it to a new level of thinking and reasoning. I guess it's part of human superiority complex over the others elements of nature to put themselves on a very high pedestal.





Anyway, what does it all have to do with samurai and ninja !

Ice ice baby... Go Ninja Go Ninja Go !.

would choose....samurai i respect them more but if i had to choose abilities i would choose ninja :)

I like both, but I go for the Samurai. I seem to be more drawn to them.