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Maxful 03-24-2011 06:33 AM

Hi, I would like to know the differences between 1a and 1b and 2a and 2b.


1a. たった今学校から帰ったところです。
1b. たった今学校から戻ったところです。


2a. 今ちょうど学校から帰ってきたところです。
2b. 今ちょうど学校から戻ってきたところです。

Darnellrbts 03-24-2011 02:14 PM

Hello everyone back with a question. Which one would I use for number
すうじ or ばんごう??

masaegu 03-24-2011 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darnellrbts (Post 858714)
Hello everyone back with a question. Which one would I use for number
すうじ or ばんごう??

Good question. You use both depending on what kind of number you are talking about.

すうじ is used when talking about numerals in general as opposed to letters.

ばんごう is a specific number assinged to a person or thing, such as a phone number, ID number, street number, etc.

Darnellrbts 03-24-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 858715)
Good question. You use both depending on what kind of number you are talking about.

すうじ is used when talking about numerals in general as opposed to letters.

ばんごう is a specific number assinged to a person or thing, such as a phone number, ID number, street number, etc.

Thank you for the quick reply, you hit the nail right on the head that's what I needed to know.

Fugue 03-24-2011 06:35 PM

Currently writing a short essay for my class. I meant to say, "I don't know what else to do," writing, "何をするのを知ません." When I got it back my teacher told me to insert "ほかに" somewhere around where 何 is, but I don't know if it's before or after. Also she told me to change the second を to か and pointed out that 知ません is used incorrectly (so I'm guessing it's 分かりません?).

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

cloud9 03-24-2011 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugue (Post 858740)
Currently writing a short essay for my class. I meant to say, "I don't know what else to do," writing, "何をするのを知ません." When I got it back my teacher told me to insert "ほかに" somewhere around where 何 is, but I don't know if it's before or after. Also she told me to change the second を to か and pointed out that 知ません is used incorrectly (so I'm guessing it's 分かりません?).

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

My guess would be...
ほかに何をするのが分かりません。

分かる usually takes が that's why the 2nd を has to be changed to が.

Fugue 03-24-2011 06:51 PM

Well at first I assumed she must have written が, but it actually looks like か. Might've forgotten the tenten though. Thanks for the help.

cloud9 03-24-2011 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugue (Post 858745)
Well at first I assumed she must have written が, but it actually looks like か. Might've forgotten the tenten though. Thanks for the help.

Sorry, my bad ほかに何をするのか分かりません should be right, don't use が. :o Ignore my previous post plz.

Fugue 03-25-2011 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud9 (Post 858753)
Sorry, my bad ほかに何をするのか分かりません should be right, don't use が. :o Ignore my previous post plz.

Oh, okay. What exactly does か mean there then? I've never used it that way.

KyleGoetz 03-25-2011 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugue (Post 858780)
Oh, okay. What exactly does か mean there then? I've never used it that way.

It effective means the preceding part of the phrase is unsure/unknown/whatever. It sort of fulfills the role of "what" or "where" or whatever in the sentence.

何曜日関西へ行くか、まだ決めていません。
I have not decided what day I will go to Kansai.

何時に起きるか分かりません。
I do not know what time I will wake up.

「誰がボブを演じるかについて何かお考えはありますか ?」
"Do you have any idea about who will play [the role of] Bob [in the play/show/musical]?"

Without the か, all these sentences would be grammatically incorrect. Basically, if you've got a 誰、何、何時 etc. type of question word, you need to include that か.

cloud9 03-26-2011 11:28 PM

Hi, I'm coming up with some things I can say for my oral exam and I'm wondering if this makes sense:
がんばって勉強するべきなんだが、必ずしも楽しいこと をしないというわけではない。

I'm trying to say, "You should study hard but it doesn't mean you shouldn't have fun."


PS. Am I using casual form correctly? (ではない)

igorok84 03-26-2011 11:36 PM

welcome
 
In the first I bring all the condolences in happening. Actually it is a not tragedy of Japan, it is a tragedy of the whole world. And there must be in this pain everybody. I live in Ukraine, in glorious town Zaporozhye. Our family with gladness will accept a victim and remaining without a house Japanese family on the protracted and free residence. Possibly in Your country there are families which want to drive away children a little rather and not to expose to the dangers. My skype -- igorok84, my e-mail -- [email protected]

Supperman 03-27-2011 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud9 (Post 858955)
Hi, I'm coming up with some things I can say for my oral exam and I'm wondering if this makes sense:
がんばって勉強するべきなんだが、必ずしも楽しいこと をしないというわけではない。

I'm trying to say, "You should study hard but it doesn't mean you shouldn't have fun."


PS. Am I using casual form correctly? (ではない)

がんばって勉強するべきなんだが、必ずしも楽しいこと をするなというわけではありません

masaegu 03-27-2011 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supperman (Post 858960)
がんばって勉強するべきなんだが、必ずしも楽しいこと をするなというわけではありません

You have altered all together the addressee of the sentence in question by using するな. Besides that, you made it sound even less casual when the questioner is specifically requesting the casual.

Darnellrbts 03-27-2011 07:02 PM

It's me again :D , I have 5 sentences that needed to be translated into japanese using the xはy です framework. I was wondering if anyone could check my work, I want to be able to do this good without second guessing myself all the time.

Ms.ogawa is Japanese. オガワさんはにほんじんです
Mr.takeda is a teacher. タケダさんはせんせいです
I am a international student. わたしはりゅうがくせいです
Michiko is a first year student. ミチコさんはいちねんせいです
Ms.Yamamoto is 25 years old. ヤマモトさんはにじゅうごさいです
My major is Japanese. せんもんはにほんごです

KyleGoetz 03-27-2011 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darnellrbts (Post 859026)
Ms.ogawa is Japanese. オガワさんはにほんじんです
Mr.takeda is a teacher. タケダさんはせんせいです
Michiko is a first year student. ミチコさんはいちねんせいです
Ms.Yamamoto is 25 years old. ヤマモトさんはにじゅうごさいです

Why are you writing their names in katakana instead of hiragana or kanji? These sentences are grammatically correct, though.

Quote:

I am a international student. わたしはりゅうがくせいです
You wrote "exchange student," not "international student." They are not the same thing. An exchange student comes to a university temporarily from another; an international student comes from a foreign country to study at that university and graduates from that university. I'd say you want 外国人学生(がいこくじんがくせい) instead.

Quote:

My major is Japanese. せんもんはにほんごです
せんもん is "specialty." You want せんこう for "major."

cloud9 03-27-2011 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 858970)
You have altered all together the addressee of the sentence in question by using するな. Besides that, you made it sound even less casual when the questioner is specifically requesting the casual.

Maybe if I change it to this, would it be correct?:
がんばって勉強するべきなんだが、たまに楽しく遊ぶこ とが必要ね。

You should study hard but it's important to have fun once in a while.

masaegu 03-28-2011 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud9 (Post 859030)
Maybe if I change it to this, would it be correct?:
がんばって勉強するべきなんだが、たまに楽しく遊ぶこ とが必要ね。

You should study hard but it's important to have fun once in a while.

That is much better.

To make it sound more natural:
たまに > たまには
ことが > ことも

cloud9 03-28-2011 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 859056)
That is much better.

To make it sound more natural:
たまに > たまには
ことが > ことも


がんばって勉強するべきなんだが、たまには楽しく遊ぶ ことも必要ね。

Thanks a bunch for all the help! :D ありがとうございました!

chryuop 03-29-2011 04:12 PM

日本人の友達が今日電子メールを送ってくれました。変 な文であのメッセージを書き始めて、意味が分かりませ んでした。「手紙の返事はかけるときに、書いてくださ い」。当てずっぽうで「write when you have time」という意味を言ってみますが、間違いなく正しく� �かったですね。

masaegu 03-29-2011 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryuop (Post 859292)
日本人の友達が今日電子メールを送ってくれました。変 な文であのメッセージを書き始めて、意味が分かりませ んでした。「手紙の返事はかけるときに、書いてくださ い」。当てずっぽうで「write when you have time」という意味を言ってみますが、間違いなく正しく� �かったですね。

はい、そういう意味です。

cloud9 03-30-2011 04:38 PM

四六時中 is a new vocab I have to know and I'm wondering if I'm using it properly in this sentence:

山田さんは田中さんに四六時中ぶつぶつ言っている。
Yamada-san is always nagging Tanaka-san.

For that sentence, is there a preference between 四六時中 and いつも or both are used just as frequently?

masaegu 03-30-2011 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud9 (Post 859444)
四六時中 is a new vocab I have to know and I'm wondering if I'm using it properly in this sentence:

山田さんは田中さんに四六時中ぶつぶつ言っている。
Yamada-san is always nagging Tanaka-san.

lol That is a perfect example.

cloud9 03-30-2011 04:48 PM

Thanks! =D

masaegu 03-30-2011 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud9 (Post 859444)
For that sentence, is there a preference between 四六時中 and いつも or both are used just as frequently?

You are emphasizing the "always" part more when you use 四六時中. It also gives your speech more color using 四六時中 than いつも.

いつも is used way more often than 四六時中 as the simple syllable counts would tell, but 四六時中 would be a very good addition to anyone's vocabulary.

cloud9 03-30-2011 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 859449)
You are emphasizing the "always" part more when you use 四六時中. It also gives your speech more color using 四六時中 than いつも.

いつも is used way more often than 四六時中 as the simple syllable counts would tell, but 四六時中 would be a very good addition to anyone's vocabulary.

Now that you mention it, it does sound more colorful. Thanks for the explanation!

masaegu 03-30-2011 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloud9 (Post 859457)
Now that you mention it, it does sound more colorful. Thanks for the explanation!

Right. For both color and mathematical correctness!

4 x 6 = 24 (hours a day) :vsign:

chryuop 03-30-2011 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 859458)
Right. For both color and mathematical correctness!

4 x 6 = 24 (hours a day) :vsign:

I guess it is used like the English 24/7 (as in 24 hours 7 days a week), am I right? I mean can you use 四六時中 for a shop or something that someone does in excess? Example: this shop is open 24/7 or again, my son watches television 24/7.

chryuop 03-30-2011 08:22 PM

質問がもう一問あります。:)
日本人の女性が手紙を送ってくれて、「私は英語を書い てみますが私の英語はひどいです」と書きました。どう して「英語で書く」という代わりに「英語を書く」とい うのか分かりません。
お願いします。

KyleGoetz 03-30-2011 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryuop (Post 859481)
質問がもう一問あります。:)
日本人の女性が手紙を送ってくれて、「私は英語を書い てみますが私の英語はひどいです」と書きました。どう して「英語で書く」という代わりに「英語を書く」とい うのか分かりません。
お願いします。

It's the difference between "write English" and "write with English."

StonerPenguin 03-31-2011 02:34 AM

Haa, sorry didn't respond sooner. I've been driving all over Alabama here lately (burning up a bunch of money in fuel so now I'm completely broke til Friday...) but I got my camera back :D Though the campus police were persnickety as hell, I had to make the 3 hour drive there 2 days in a row and even blew a tire just to get the damn thing. Also, the University of Alabama has tons of Japanese students! Apparently they do regular exchanges with Chiba University students :eek: Maaan, I wanna transfer... That college is sooo much nicer than mine :(

Anywho, this time I'm asking for manga help. I still intend to write a message to those girls but now it's procrastinating time, haha ;)

Context; Main character (Yuusei) has come home to his wife (Rika) all beat up. She's says "Don't tell me you got in a fight...(まさかケンカ・・・)" to which he responds;
「転んだんだ・・・派手にやっちまって周りに笑われた よ」 I know he's saying something like "I just fell... I made a big scene of it and got laughed at." but how does 周り fit in here? Does it mean something like 'people gathered around'?

Rika then chastises him a bit and questions why he's lying and covering things up. He says;
「オレはもう昔とは違う これは誓ってバカなことして 出来た傷じゃねぇよ」
"I've changed [since then; referring to his violent teen years] I swear these are (or aren't?) injuries from being stupid" The structure has me stumped and I can't tell if the 「じゃねぇ」 here is negative or positive :confused:

Rika; 「本当?」 "Really?"
Yuusei ; 「心配かけて悪かった 最近疲れててボーッとしてたん だ」
"I'm sorry for making you worry. I've just been tired and dazed lately
「でも もうこれ以上怪我はしねぇって約束する」
"But I promise I won't get any more injuries"
Rika; 「本当に?」 "Really?"
Yuusei; 「ああ花凛もいるんだ 無理はしねぇ」
"Yeah, Karin's here too (could I use "For Karin's sake too" instead so it sounds more natural?). I won't push it"
Yuusei (thoughts); 「ごめんな理花・・・お前だけは絶対悲しませたくない 」
"I'm sorry Rika... You're absolutely the last person I want to upset"
「だから これからオレがやろうと考えている ことは どうしても話せないんだ」
"So from now on I can't tell you what I'm considering doing"

That's the whole page. If anything looks off, please say so. :)

masaegu 03-31-2011 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryuop (Post 859479)
I guess it is used like the English 24/7 (as in 24 hours 7 days a week), am I right? I mean can you use 四六時中 for a shop or something that someone does in excess? Example: this shop is open 24/7 or again, my son watches television 24/7.

You are right about 24/7.

We do not generally use the phrase 四六時中 to say a store is open 24 hours. It's much more often used to describe an action than a state/situation. A store being open is more a situation than an action.

We DO say someone watches TV 四六時中.

masaegu 03-31-2011 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 859506)
Context; Main character (Yuusei) has come home to his wife (Rika) all beat up. She's says "Don't tell me you got in a fight...(まさかケンカ・・・)" to which he responds;
「転んだんだ・・・派手にやっちまって周りに笑われた よ」 I know he's saying something like "I just fell... I made a big scene of it and got laughed at." but how does 周り fit in here? Does it mean something like 'people gathered around'?

Rika then chastises him a bit and questions why he's lying and covering things up. He says;
「オレはもう昔とは違う これは誓ってバカなことして 出来た傷じゃねぇよ」
"I've changed [since then; referring to his violent teen years] I swear these are (or aren't?) injuries from being stupid" The structure has me stumped and I can't tell if the 「じゃねぇ」 here is negative or positive :confused:

Rika; 「本当?」 "Really?"
Yuusei ; 「心配かけて悪かった 最近疲れててボーッとしてたん だ」
"I'm sorry for making you worry. I've just been tired and dazed lately
「でも もうこれ以上怪我はしねぇって約束する」
"But I promise I won't get any more injuries"
Rika; 「本当に?」 "Really?"
Yuusei; 「ああ花凛もいるんだ 無理はしねぇ」
"Yeah, Karin's here too (could I use "For Karin's sake too" instead so it sounds more natural?). I won't push it"
Yuusei (thoughts); 「ごめんな理花・・・お前だけは絶対悲しませたくない 」
"I'm sorry Rika... You're absolutely the last person I want to upset"
「だから これからオレがやろうと考えている ことは どうしても話せないんだ」
"So from now on I can't tell you what I'm considering doing"

That's the whole page. If anything looks off, please say so. :)

周り means "people around me" here. The "people" part is just implied and understood. In a more formal convo, you would use 周りの人、周りの人たち for the same meaning.

「じゃねぇ」 here is negative. Otherwise, it would not go with the phrase オレはもう昔とは違う. He is different now; therefore, those injuries are not from a meaningless, stupid fight.

Yes, you can use "For Karin's sake too".

You missed the relative clause in 「だから これからオレがやろうと考えていることは どうしても話せないんだ」.

What he cannot talk about is これからオレがやろうと考えていること. You took the これから part to modify 話せない in your TL.

StonerPenguin 04-01-2011 04:03 AM

Ah, I see. He's saying "So I can't tell you what I'm considering doing from now on" Thanks as always Masaegu. ;)

Annnd a few pages later, I need help again. But it's late so I'll ask tomorrow ;p Thanks man. :D

StonerPenguin 04-02-2011 01:53 AM

Okay, more manga help.

Main character (Yuusei) is talking to an old gang friend (Fukuhara) about past events. The way Fukuhara talks is a little difficult for me.
Yuusei;「お前と大村がヤクザに拉致られてオレが乗り込� �でいった時の事覚えてる?」
"Do you remember that time when you and Oomura were kidnapped by the Yakuza and I got in the car?"
Fukuhara; 「あったわ!!あん時めちゃくちゃボコられてマジ殺( や)られると思ったぜ」
"Yeah!! I really thought you were gonna get the crap kicked outta ya and get killed!" [Does 「あったわ!」 mean "Yeah" here?]
「俺ぶっちゃけ人生で一番ビビったのかあん時だよ」
"To be honest that was the most scared I've been in my whole life"
「お前の腕 折ったやつなんか殺し屋だったんだぜ!? 」
"The guy that broke your arm was yakuza!?" [Why is this a question? Is he asking something like "Y'know?" or "Y'think?"?]
「兄貴がヤクザの友達が言ってたんだから間違いねぇっ て」
"Big bro said a Yakuza's friend said (?) so there's no doubt" [What? I don't understand what's being said here...]
Yuusei; (I think; the word bubbles are on the BG, not the characters) 「そんなのにお前あいつを怒らすようなことばっか言う からさ」
"That's because you just say things to piss him off"
Fukuhara (I think)「マジよく腕だけで済んだよ」
"It ended with just your arm (or something??)" [I don't understand this line; I know 済む here means "to merely result in something less severe than expected" but I can't pin the meaning down.]

I'm having a hard time following this conversation. :/ And it doesn't end there, sorry for the length. :ywave:

masaegu 04-02-2011 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 859832)
Main character (Yuusei) is talking to an old gang friend (Fukuhara) about past events. The way Fukuhara talks is a little difficult for me.
Yuusei;「お前と大村がヤクザに拉致られてオレが乗り込� �でいった時の事覚えてる?」
"Do you remember that time when you and Oomura were kidnapped by the Yakuza and I got in the car?"
Fukuhara; 「あったわ!!あん時めちゃくちゃボコられてマジ殺( や)られると思ったぜ」
"Yeah!! I really thought you were gonna get the crap kicked outta ya and get killed!" [Does 「あったわ!」 mean "Yeah" here?]
「俺ぶっちゃけ人生で一番ビビったのかあん時だよ」
"To be honest that was the most scared I've been in my whole life"
「お前の腕 折ったやつなんか殺し屋だったんだぜ!? 」
"The guy that broke your arm was yakuza!?" [Why is this a question? Is he asking something like "Y'know?" or "Y'think?"?]
「兄貴がヤクザの友達が言ってたんだから間違いねぇっ て」
"Big bro said a Yakuza's friend said (?) so there's no doubt" [What? I don't understand what's being said here...]
Yuusei; (I think; the word bubbles are on the BG, not the characters) 「そんなのにお前あいつを怒らすようなことばっか言う からさ」
"That's because you just say things to piss him off"
Fukuhara (I think)「マジよく腕だけで済んだよ」
"It ended with just your arm (or something??)" [I don't understand this line; I know 済む here means "to merely result in something less severe than expected" but I can't pin the meaning down.]

"Get in the car"? Where do you get "car"?
The phrase means "to march into (the enemy's headquarters)".

"you were gonna get the crap kicked outta ya"
The pronouns should be the first person plural here.

あったわ = "There was (such an incident)." You may add "Yeah" in your TL.
Unlike many textbooks would tell you, men do use the sentence-ender わ.
It is pretty common in Kanto and just essential in Kansai. This character speaks Kanto as you know.

Not sure why you translated 殺し屋 as "yakuza". Not all yakuza guys kill. In fact, very few of them do. 殺し屋 is a hit man.

The question mark would imply "y'know?".

「兄貴がヤクザの友達が言ってたんだから間違いねぇっ て」
The reason you don't understand this sentence is that there is a verb hidden at the very end, which would be another 言う in the past tense. That second, hidden 言う was performed by 兄貴.

"Big bro said that there's no doubt because his yakuza pal had told him so."

「マジよく腕だけで済んだよ」
Think hard. We discussed this 済む several months ago. "to get off with just ~~~"

StonerPenguin 04-02-2011 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 859839)
"Get in the car"? Where do you get "car"?
The phrase means "to march into (the enemy's headquarters)".

Ah, up til this point I've only seen 乗り込む refer to getting in a vehicle ;p Learn somethin' everyday :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 859839)
Not sure why you translated 殺し屋 as "yakuza". Not all yakuza guys kill. In fact, very few of them do. 殺し屋 is a hit man.

I don't know why I did either. I used 'assassin' on my Word Document. I was just sloppy when I typed it here. Sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 859839)
「兄貴がヤクザの友達が言ってたんだから間違いねぇっ て」
The reason you don't understand this sentence is that there is a verb hidden at the very end, which would be another 言う in the past tense. That second, hidden 言う was performed by 兄貴.

"Big bro said that there's no doubt because his yakuza pal had told him so."

I'm used to seeing 「って」 for informal quotes but the two 「が」s plus a lack of a 「そう」 (or something similar) threw me off. Thanks for the explanation.
Quote:

Originally Posted by masaegu (Post 859839)
「マジよく腕だけで済んだよ」
Think hard. We discussed this 済む several months ago. "to get off with just ~~~"

So then 「マジよく腕だけで済んだよ」 = (loosely) "You were really lucky to get off with just a broken arm"

Thanks a ton! :D

StonerPenguin 04-02-2011 04:10 AM

I'm still having trouble but I wanna try hard by myself before I ask you (though I'm probably gonna end up posting the whole 3 pages...). Just one quick question for now; What does 飛ぶ mean when used with 意識? The sentence is 「オレ・・・あの時 意識 飛びかけてたけど」 Does it mean 'fading in and out of consciousness'? (totally guessing here)

masaegu 04-02-2011 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 859846)
I'm used to seeing 「って」 for informal quotes but the two 「が」s plus a lack of a 「そう」 (or something similar) threw me off. Thanks for the explanation.

It is an informal quote here as well. To rephrase the sentence using a direct quote:
兄貴が「ヤクザの友達が言ってたんだから間違いねぇ。 」っ て言ってた。

Quote:

So then 「マジよく腕だけで済んだよ」 = (loosely) "You were really lucky to get off with just a broken arm"
Right, we talked about it on p.70.

Whenever you see a 「~~だけで済む」 structure, it implies that someone is being lucky. His damage/loss/penalty could have been much severer.

masaegu 04-02-2011 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 859848)
I'm still having trouble but I wanna try hard by myself before I ask you (though I'm probably gonna end up posting the whole 3 pages...). Just one quick question for now; What does 飛ぶ mean when used with 意識? The sentence is 「オレ・・・あの時 意識 飛びかけてたけど」 Does it mean 'fading in and out of consciousness'? (totally guessing here)

That is correct. 飛ぶ here means "to be lost temporarily".

The noun most often used with this meaning is 記憶.


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