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06-06-2009, 02:57 PM
It has been my experience that separation is no more or less than Western countries I have visited or lived in. As I said, I think there is a clearer mental distinction, where individuals themselves overtly self-police, but even then I don't think this is different, just not as underhandedly deceptive as in, as the key example, America.
I'm an ardent feminist, and as such, believe that in Western societies, we have managed to espouse equality in public while failing to truly deal with it in private (leading, of course, to situations that make public espousal absolutely worthless). Whereas in Japan, there is limited public espousal, let alone private espousal, and so while you might think Japan is more overt in its inequality, I just think it is more honest about its inequality, not necessarily in possession of a higher overall level of such behavior. 
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06-06-2009, 05:24 PM
Im just saying that the thing about the buses being gender segregated. I have seen that but only on extra curricular trips for band and most often after it got dark, because some people found this to be a perfect time to lets say release tension.
Also I don't think it is sexist to have segregated bathrooms or concerts for that matter as long as all groups have equal facilites or opportunity to go the the concerts.
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06-06-2009, 11:25 PM
My band director used to say "There are white rooms, and there are red rooms. No pink rooms!" Given the number of gay and bisexual couples I knew in high school, there were plenty of pink rooms without anatomical sex preventing it.
"Separate but equal" is inherently unequal. Many feminists, such as myself, find this applies no less to segregation based on sex or gender (and subsequently, gender identity) than it does to race (there is more than one type of feminism, and the feminism that promotes ultimately biological or inherent differences in males and females prevents true equality is one I consider very flawed, since I consider most gender to be constructed and imposed, rather than inherent). I recognise Nyororin's concerns (and have in fact been a victim of sexual assault, myself. Luckily, the attacker got spooked, and never got very far), but what is practical now is different from what gender theory tells us should be. Segregated bathrooms and segregated concerts make sense in a context where sexual assault is a distinct possibility, yet the mere culturalisation during formative years by gender specific rooms, roles, activities leads to the view of "the other" and this is a component of a culture where sexual assault is a widespread threat rather than a rare occurrence by a truly psychotic individual. We should decry the necessity of such things while working towards a state of cultural maturity where these things are not as necessary as they once were, and finally, not necessary at all. When we separate people into groups, we, by virtue of the grouping, assign values to each group. As long as we continue to separate "boys" from "girls" (quotes used in acknowledgement of transgendered individuals) in major areas of life, there will never be equality based on the merits of individuals as individuals. Bathroom usage, especially during pre-school and kindergarten really does have a gender-forcing component to it, as it is often the first time there is constant pressure to conform behavior (go to this room or that room) based solely on anatomical sex. Plenty of children fail to recognise the reason for this, and some even state the actual feminist question themselves "Why?" They find the situation initially uncomfortable, since our family bathrooms are rarely segregated. For transgendered individuals, this can often be traced back to as the first point at which they realise their gender does not match their sex. Before, it didn't matter, and then suddenly it does. Bathrooms will continue to be a point of fear for many years to come. Much of this is general theory about the philosophy of gender, and its applications on sociology, psychology, and political science, and doesn't have to do specifically with Japan, although there are plenty of examples in Japan that are much clearer than western counterparts. On a semi-related note, Barack Obama declared June 2009 to be LGBT Pride Month in America.
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06-09-2009, 05:39 AM
Thank you for the information! That was very helpful. I like to know more about the reasons for things and why they affect me. ( I hope that makes sense, I am tired!)
OMGosh, Pres. Obama really made this month GLBT Pride month?! My birthday is June 12! Wow!  How about roles in Japanese society? I read that females have to do stuff like leave the room when her husband's co-worker comes to visit, has to order the food at the restaurant (I think, I'm not sure about that one), and they don't get paid as much as men do for the same exact job. Is this stuff still true today?  Quote:
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06-09-2009, 05:50 AM
you know that part about unequal pay is still true in america right?
I really don't want to start any arguements at this point in time...
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06-09-2009, 05:53 AM
Quote:
If you look at how babies are made, we are all originally female (hence why men have nipples which form before they become male). A switch is flicked at some stage or it is not (in our genetic code), if it is, you become male after getting an injection of hormones that encourage the male organs and brain to form. If not, you stay female. There are cases where the switch is flicked, yet problems occur (such as Nyororins boy), and they are born with deformed genitals and perhaps other problems; they may have gender identity issues, tossing up over whether they're more male or more female. But it is litterally impossible for a male brain to form in a female without growing a penis (or at least half a penis) in unison; other words, she is just a lesbian. Yoshimi, be proud of who you are, don't hide behind something you're not. The eternal Saint is calling, through the ages she has told. The ages have not listened; the will of faith has grown old…
For forever she will wander, for forever she withholds; the Demon King is on his way, you’d best not be learned untold…
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06-09-2009, 06:18 AM
tenchu is right about the switch when the ovaries can and will drop and form to testes if they will be male but im unsure it that means they will have a female or male brain which have been shown to be different. I have a friend who has to take estrogen because she has too much testosterone. but this thread wasn't made about her or yoshimi's sexual orientaion or gender. i believe it was about seperation in japan.
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06-09-2009, 06:29 AM
That's not quite my case, and I am not a lesbian.
I am androgynous. I was born with the female sex, but the way society describes me to be (other than physically) is more of a male, although I am not entirely masculine, nor feminine. I am androgynous because I fit nicely in the middle of what society expects me to be; I seem to not 100% fit into the male category, and especially not the female category. I consider homosexuality and heterosexuality to depend on sex, not gender, so my being attracted to males, and being sexually a female, I am heterosexual. Don't think that transgenderism is impossible. Transgenders have been created mostly by society. When we are rejected by society for being different for not fitting into our sex roles, we do not see ourselves as that gender. Like, according to society, I should have like Barbies when I was a child, not Hotwheels, I should wear dresses, and I should act a certain way. I do not do these things, so I cannot consider myself a girl. Society has grouped people according to the way they are born according to someone's ideas of what each sex should be like. Like a rule book that should brainwash every individual. If you do not follow this rulebook, you are considered a freak. Therefore, if you are a female and you prefer men's fashion, or are a male that likes My Little Pony, then you are a freak. Society needs to stop this. All sex means is whether you can carry a baby or fertilize it, and which parts of the brain you use. That's it. The "Y" chromosome doesn't say "Hey, buddy! You have to like the color blue!". Society has warped peoples' minds with nonsense. Gender segregation should not exist except maybe in special situations, like restrooms. I should not have to sit on one side of the bus because I can bear a child, and my friend on the other side because he can produce sperm. Quote:
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06-09-2009, 07:30 AM
Quote:
Why do you have such an negative view towards Society? things like newborns being associated with an color is just an petty social habit (grand scheme of things it's to let others know generally what sex the babe is). You also must consider that it is not society but, our bodies and minds which identify with an set of characteristics of being male and female. I have given example of what estrogen and testosterone does to the body, now as humans do we not identity with like minded individuals and tend to group together? In great generalizations there ARE common grounds on which all females and males tend to act alike, and by that does society come to the conclusion how we should at least identify with one sex. It doesn't matter what you watch, play with, or dress. Society problem is when you try to identity with the opposite (cross dressing it not the clothing that is the issue but the forced identity) by forcing others to see what you are not. As long as you identify with the given sex that you are, how you act is of little concern. Last to add, we do not live in an Utopian society. Criminals abound, and given the situation that is the one of the prime reason why sex segregation exits is to protect the opposite sex from predators. Well you might say only one person out of many, but all it takes is one person to harm someone OR cause an pact mentality to take hold. To also to add I do not have to mention much about the human races libido and what person wants to be in that situation? 31 Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God. 33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
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06-10-2009, 03:52 AM
I still think that brainwash is a major part of it, though. I like to use myself for an example because I know myself. When I was a child, I was introduced to both dolls and cars, and I hated dolls and loved cars. I also "cross-dress" sometimes (I used to always "cross-dress"), and I do not act feminine. I even apparently don't think like a girl according to some kind of scientific study because several differences they gave for males and females did not match me; if I was only judged by that, I would be a male.
I don't even believe that there is a such thing as cross-dressing. For example, in ancient times, everyone wore things similar to dresses, like the Greeks do in the greek statues. Not just women. Also, in medieval times, men wore tunics, sometimes with tights, not pants. What is a tunic? A short dress. Men wore kilts in Scotland. What is that? A knee-length skirt. Societies all around the world decided how they would name and categorize clothing according to sex. Flair-legged jeans used to be worn by men in the 70s or 80s (I don't know exactly), yet if a man wears them now, they are considered gay or something because now only women wear them. I guarantee that if I made clothing for women that looked like mens or the other way around, they would be worn by the sex I created them for, because people are so blind about things; all they know is what the label says because that is how society taught them. Anyway, we have strayed off the topic. I read in a magazine that there was a female Japanese band that was having a hard time becoming a band because of their sex, so they disguised themselves as boys. Is stuff like that common? Is is really that much harder for females to get jobs than males? Quote:
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